May loses again by 149

[Leicesterbaggie]

Please please go and vote so many have given their all for your right to vote

So GO BUT SPOIL your vote- write none of these or anything else

Do not let the political class believe they have a mandate

It was a stitch up - May & 75% of MPs want to remain & today's NO DEAL vote shows their true colours and their negotiating incompetence.

Any referendum will be 2 choices May's deal- rejected by everyone or staying in EU- ok if you want to tick either box but me I'll be going & SPOILING MY VOTE

Think we are seeing the meltdown of 2 parties and the rise of a variety of far ledt & far right splinter groups- fuellwd by highly effective social media canpaigns

You make a very good point bordering, regarding what people in the past have given up for the vote. Perhaps it would be better for me to perhaps spoil my vote as opposed to not voting.

[WBA123]

Wrong. By political class I meant politicians across the board if you read what I wrote. The mess we are in is not down to one or two or a few individuals. Sometimes it pays to try and look at things objectively without political bias. I’ve already said that Mays handling of this has been woeful but so has Labours. They’ve no clear policy, just a raft of contradictions and sound bites with most of their own supporters not knowing what their policy is on Brexit. If ever we needed strong credible opposition it is now but sadly Jezza, McDonnel, Thornbury and Abbott et al are none of these. My point was a vast majority across the board collectively voted for a referendum and twice to have a no deal option included for deadline day. They are all culpable for creating this mess

Agree with you that the opposition has been terrible.

Agree with you that majority of the government are incompetent.

Disagree with you that remain supporting MPs are responsible for this mess.

[WBA123]

My business is internet based retailing.

I fully expected a downturn in business in 2016 after Brexit was announced,I expected to lose around 20% of turnover and in the first few weeks after the vote that was borne out.

Then very quickly,and surprisingly to me,business rocketed and we ended the year around 15% up compared to 2015 and we then grew by 20% in 2017 and the same again in 2018 both here and across Europe with Germany and France seeing even stronger growth.

However,over the last few weeks,due to indecision and uncertainty we are down by 15-20% per day on our 2018 figures so in effect back to 2017’s turnover.

It’s clear to me that back just after the vote and over the last few weeks the thing causing the problem is UNCERTAINTY and NOT the fact we’re departing.

With respect,if you’re 37 years old ( same age as my son in law ) you can’t see this in the same perspective as us older ones who were living as ****agers and older in the 70’s.

We joined the EEC to make trading easier,that’s what my mum and dad voted for.

The country did not vote for anything other than a common marketplace.....that’s what you don’t seem to get.

20 odd years ago my dad warned me we would end up with one huge federal state due to treaties our idiots were signing up to.....the public never got asked about Maastricht and the like.

I have no doubt the initial months and first year or two will be challenging but we are British and we’ve always had backbone up until recent times,without us the Germans would be ruling Europe lock stock and barrel.

I went to Australia in January and saw a country that has a strong identity.

I asked a lot of Aussies about their philosophy and what they thought of Brexit.

Their opinion is that they like the way that with their constitution the feeling is that if you don’t like what we’re are and what we stand for then you can “do one”,they don’t back down.

They think we should stand on our own two feet,that’s my feeling too.

Too much unelected dog wagging sovereign tail for too long.

WTO rules will make things much harder for a period but I’ll live with that.

'Backbone' doesn't provide tariff free access to the largest trading bloc in the worldwide. It doesn't make smart decisions or negotiate the best deals. Intelligence does that. This debacle has been anything but intelligent.

I personally can't work out why so many people over 50 supported Leave and also harp on about the war. The war should have nothing to do with leaving the EU, this is a future economical decision - not a historical one. I can't understand why connotations are being made with it.

In terms of what we did and didn't vote for, we elect MP's to make those decisions for us. We cannot hold a referendum for every decision this country wants to make, we'll be forever in the voting booth. We elect politicians who appoint and make decisions. This is the same in every democracy.

With respect, if you're 57 you've lived through the longest peace time era we've had in centuries. Where an environment has been created that has supported business, with the EU's help. That has helped create the conditions for your business to set up and thrive. Did you think about your Children and Grandchildren during the vote? What if they wanted to live or work in an EU country, that right is in the process of being taken away. What if they want to set up a business in the future like you have, but are now fully governed by a party who's recent cabinet minister said 'f&ck business'...?

I just find it bizarre you are supporting the very thing that is causing this uncertainty, which you now believe is holding your business back. What is it you personally hope to gain from leaving the EU? I'm not talking about the UK, but you personally. What makes you think leaving the EU will improve your life and business prospects? Do you understand the impact of what WTO rules are and may mean for your business?

Btw, I don't want this to come across as condescending, I'm just trying to understand your position.

[mickd1961]

'Backbone' doesn't provide tariff free access to the largest trading bloc in the worldwide. It doesn't make smart decisions or negotiate the best deals. Intelligence does that. This debacle has been anything but intelligent.

I personally can't work out why so many people over 50 supported Leave and also harp on about the war. The war should have nothing to do with leaving the EU, this is a future economical decision - not a historical one. I can't understand why connotations are being made with it.

In terms of what we did and didn't vote for, we elect MP's to make those decisions for us. We cannot hold a referendum for every decision this country wants to make, we'll be forever in the voting booth. We elect politicians who appoint and make decisions. This is the same in every democracy.

With respect, if you're 57 you've lived through the longest peace time era we've had in centuries. Where an environment has been created that has supported business, with the EU's help. That has helped create the conditions for your business to set up and thrive. Did you think about your Children and Grandchildren during the vote? What if they wanted to live or work in an EU country, that right is in the process of being taken away. What if they want to set up a business in the future like you have, but are now fully governed by a party who's recent cabinet minister said 'f&ck business'...?

I just find it bizarre you are supporting the very thing that is causing this uncertainty, which you now believe is holding your business back. What is it you personally hope to gain from leaving the EU? I'm not talking about the UK, but you personally. What makes you think leaving the EU will improve your life and business prospects? Do you understand the impact of what WTO rules are and may mean for your business?

Btw, I don't want this to come across as condescending, I'm just trying to understand your position.

I made a decision to be financially worse off as a pay off against uncontrolled immigration.

The war taking place in the area I live between Romanians who were dumped en mass and the Asians who dominated that area is horrendous.

Gang fights most weeks,human trafficking,prostitution,drug turf wars the whole nine yards.

This is going over very old ground so I’m not going to keep saying this 123......I understood I’d lose money but actually I didn’t,business grew soon after the Brexit result.

It’ll be a struggle for the next year or two,I’ll admit that but I DO NOT CARE....I knew what I was voting for an that we might end up with no deal.

If that’s the case then fine.....the EU can find the £39 Billion elsewhere.

[WBA123]

I made a decision to be financially worse off as a pay off against uncontrolled immigration.

The war taking place in the area I live between Romanians who were dumped en mass and the Asians who dominated that area is horrendous.

Gang fights most weeks,human trafficking,prostitution,drug turf wars the whole nine yards.

This is going over very old ground so I’m not going to keep saying this 123......I understood I’d lose money but actually I didn’t,business grew soon after the Brexit result.

It’ll be a struggle for the next year or two,I’ll admit that but I DO NOT CARE....I knew what I was voting for an that we might end up with no deal.

If that’s the case then fine.....the EU can find the £39 Billion elsewhere.

And it looks like we are going over old ground. We do not have uncontrolled immigration with the EU. It is written into EU law that we can deport an EU national if they are a criminal or undesirable. It is another myth perpetuated by the RW press and lying politicians such as Farage.

If there are gang wars going on, then surely this is an issue for police and government, not the EU? I'm pretty sure the Asian gangs haven't come from Europe. The EU seems to get blamed for a lot of our domestic problems.

EU Immigrants are net contributers towards our economy whereas Non-EU immigrants aren't. Meanwhile Non-EU immigration is at its highest for 15 years despite Brexit. Is that what Leave voters were going for..?

Effectively, you've voted to make yourself poorer, I guess we can agree on that. But you're satisfied with that decision because of the other benefits you are expecting there will be - whereas I don't think they exist.

Anyhow, we're on different sides of the fence. It was nice to have a debate today rather than a slanging match from our keyboards. Have a nice evening.

[soulman101]

Apparently, Kenneth Clarke and Keith Vaz want to place an amendment to revoke Article 50 full stop. I know little of Kenneth Clarke personally, but as for Vaz, what an odious little man! When I was Head of Year 7 he came to our school to talk to the year group and kept 180 pupils waiting for what seemed an age, was unprepared and talked a load of drivel and was only interested with the publicity that the photoshoot would supply him with. I went straight to the Head and told him never to let that man cross the school threshold again. This is the standard of politician that we have to endure. No wonder we are in the mess that we find ourselves in.

Kenneth Clark spoke on the The BBC this morning , i'll quote him " I can understand people who voted for Brexit wanting a NO deal, but us in the Real World of Westminster have to do what's right "

[mickd1961]

And it looks like we are going over old ground. We do not have uncontrolled immigration with the EU. It is written into EU law that we can deport an EU national if they are a criminal or undesirable. It is another myth perpetuated by the RW press and lying politicians such as Farage.

If there are gang wars going on, then surely this is an issue for police and government, not the EU? I'm pretty sure the Asian gangs haven't come from Europe. The EU seems to get blamed for a lot of our domestic problems.

EU Immigrants are net contributers towards our economy whereas Non-EU immigrants aren't. Meanwhile Non-EU immigration is at its highest for 15 years despite Brexit. Is that what Leave voters were going for..?

Effectively, you've voted to make yourself poorer, I guess we can agree on that. But you're satisfied with that decision because of the other benefits you are expecting there will be - whereas I don't think they exist.

Anyhow, we're on different sides of the fence. It was nice to have a debate today rather than a slanging match from our keyboards. Have a nice evening.

Can I suggest you go on the Stourbridge News website and read up about the machete attacks on older people in their own homes and on their own driveways,the huge number of thefts carried out by feral scum on mopeds.

The public are constantly sending images of this same gang to local plod on a daily basis yet they are so incompetent they still can’t find them.

Thankfully,from the comfort of their X5 they were sharp enough to catch my idiot of a son driving without a seat belt at the weekend whilst admitting there was a load of them hidden up looking for car transgressors.

Please look at the violent crime in our area and please don’t blame lack of police.....this is pure incompetence.

[WBA123]

Can I suggest you go on the Stourbridge News website and read up about the machete attacks on older people in their own homes and on their own driveways,the huge number of thefts carried out by feral scum on mopeds.

The public are constantly sending images of this same gang to local plod on a daily basis yet they are so incompetent they still can’t find them.

Thankfully,from the comfort of their X5 they were sharp enough to catch my idiot of a son driving without a seat belt at the weekend whilst admitting there was a load of them hidden up looking for car transgressors.

Please look at the violent crime in our area and please don’t blame lack of police.....this is pure incompetence.

I believe you, there are some nasty people out there.

But blaming the EU and making yourself poorer because of the local law enforcement's incompetence is not the answer and won't solve any of those problems.