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Thread: Mowbray Out

  1. #21
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    Don't forget a new manager has to handle the Venkys, many would be put off by that.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by test View Post
    Don't forget a new manager has to handle the Venkys, many would be put off by that.
    They've supported Mowbray 100%. And given him quite alot of money. And continued to spend a small fortune on the academy every season. He's been paid very well, and handed everything he's wanted. And crucially not had to sell one player he didn't want to. Not sure what else Venkys could've done to make his job easier. That's not to say when he arrived, and for the first 18 months, he turned things round. And everyone was greatful for that. As it wasn't just on the pitch. It was off it aswell. He came in to a right mess. I just feel we have lost our way big time. And aren't moving forwards anymore. We are starting to go backwards.

  3. #23
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    I've done another u turn too - DG must start.
    His replacement(s) just don't take up the positions he does and it seems Dack is better with DG in the team.
    We do play some decent balls into the box but our strikers are never there or don't naturally know which position to take up.

  4. #24
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    Champs - you are moving away from the actual point I made. I don't deny for a moment that the initial set-up is very important (although I certainly wouldn't go as far as "100% crucial").

    Even so, a game is made up of individual moments. Let's take a notional player called "A".
    1) Player "A" tries to pass from central midfield to his winger, but he under-hits the pass and it is intercepted.
    2) Player "A" takes a corner but overhits it, so it goes out of play.
    3) Player "A" has a clear sight of goal from eight metres out, but skews the shot wide.

    Those are three individual errors by the same player, and it doesn't matter a jot if he "started" at centre-half or centre-forward. This is what gets overlooked in the "It's all down to the manager" argument. (I can remember Bowyer being blamed because we hit the woodwork three times in one game!)
    Now, that doesn't contradict for a moment the fact that a manager carries the can. If a pattern of failure goes on for too long, the boss will go and Mowbray is clearly close to that point.
    I do think, however, that you and lots of others are guilty of forgetting the other teams.
    Just look at the table. We are three points away from tenth place! It's hardly end-of-the-world stuff.
    After the Reading game, there was a lot of positivity, but I was still cautious. Why? Well, because the margins in this Division are tiny.
    Look at the Leeds match. It took a 50/50 penalty to give them the advantage.
    On Saturday, we played badly and won. Earlier this season, there were lots of supporters giving TM this advice: "Forget about the quality of the football - just get us winning!"
    How things have changed!
    The fact is, Gallagher has been inconsistent and Brereton has been desperately disappointing. Those are the two main handicaps Mowbray has to shoulder. In the defensive area, it cannot be denied we have been badly disrupted by injuries.
    You have made numerous comments about the generally poor quality of our football, and - on the whole - I agree. The players we have do not seem to have adapted well to Mowbray's attempt to change the style. For the moment, therefore, I go along with Seventwo's suggestion of reverting to Dack and Graham up front.
    One player I still disagree with you on is Downing. I think you are pre-judging him every game. To me, he has been our most consistent performer. You like Holtby (so do I) but he has fitted seamlessly into our overall pattern of inconsistency(!), and I really don't buy the idea that this is caused entirely by his starting position.
    As I said, a brief study of the table is always worthwhile (I use the BBC version). At the moment there are four clubs above us who have picked up the same or fewer points than us in their last five games - and that includes Wednesday! Two of the top six have only gained one point more than us in that period.
    In isolation, things appear gloomy, but the big picture is rather different.
    A poor result on Wednesday may make TM's position untenable, but I still think you have to be an ostrich with no access to football history-books to conclude that a change will definitely be a change for the better.
    I give you Ince, Kean, Berg, Appleton, Lambert, Coyle - and that's just us!
    Last edited by AucklandRover; 25-11-2019 at 01:05 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    Champs - you are moving away from the actual point I made. I don't deny for a moment that the initial set-up is very important (although I certainly wouldn't go as far as "100% crucial").

    Even so, a game is made up of individual moments. Let's take a notional player called "A".
    1) Player "A" tries to pass from central midfield to his winger, but he under-hits the pass and it is intercepted.
    2) Player "A" takes a corner but overhits it, so it goes out of play.
    3) Player "A" has a clear sight of goal from eight metres out, but skews the shot wide.

    Those are three individual errors by the same player, and it doesn't matter a jot if he "started" at centre-half or centre-forward. This is what gets overlooked in the "It's all down to the manager" argument. (I can remember Bowyer being blamed because we hit the woodwork three times in one game!)
    Now, that doesn't contradict for a moment the fact that a manager carries the can. If a pattern of failure goes on for too long, the boss will go and Mowbray is clearly close to that point.
    I do think, however, that you and lots of others are guilty of forgetting the other teams.
    Just look at the table. We are three points away from tenth place! It's hardly end-of-the-world stuff.
    After the Reading game, there was a lot of positivity, but I was still cautious. Why? Well, because the margins in this Division are tiny.
    Look at the Leeds match. It took a 50/50 penalty to give them the advantage.
    On Saturday, we played badly and won. Earlier this season, there were lots of supporters giving TM this advice: "Forget about the quality of the football - just get us winning!"
    How things have changed!
    The fact is, Gallagher has been inconsistent and Brereton has been desperately disappointing. Those are the two main handicaps Mowbray has to shoulder. In the defensive area, it cannot be denied we have been badly disrupted by injuries.
    You have made numerous comments about the generally poor quality of our football, and - on the whole - I agree. The players we have do not seem to have adapted well to Mowbray's attempt to change the style. For the moment, therefore, I go along with Seventwo's suggestion of reverting to Dack and Graham up front.
    One player I still disagree with you on is Downing. I think you are pre-judging him every game. To me, he has been our most consistent performer. You like Holtby (so do I) but he has fitted seamlessly into our overall pattern of inconsistency(!), and I really don't buy the idea that this is caused entirely by his starting position.
    As I said, a brief study of the table is always worthwhile (I use the BBC version). At the moment there are four clubs above us who have picked up the same or fewer points than us in their last five games - and that includes Wednesday! Two of the top six have only gained one point more than us in that period.
    In isolation, things appear gloomy, but the big picture is rather different.
    A poor result on Wednesday may make TM's position untenable, but I still think you have to be an ostrich with no access to football history-books to conclude that a change will definitely be a change for the better.
    I give you Ince, Kean, Berg, Appleton, Lambert, Coyle - and that's just us!
    If we go back to Graham then that shows exactly where we are. Going nowhere. And it's best all round if the manager Leaves. We are going backwards. And it's just not enjoyable to watch us play. It's frustrating and been inconsistent at best for 12 months. Graham isn't the answer. He's part of the problem.

  6. #26
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    Auks. Remember a while back? I was chatting about how playing Brereton out wide last season just destroyed him. Then when he's killed his confidence he carried on playing him, again inexplicably on thwcwibg? Until he took him out of the side.
    And I feared he was doing the exact same thing with Gallagher? You said that wasn't the case and u was being unfair?
    Did you watch on Sat? Did you feel SG was effective out wide? Or did you think Armstrong was worth his place? Bearing in mind we have one instruction. Hit long hopeful balls in the air for the front man to bring it down and play Dack in. Which as clear as day hasn't worked for a long long time.
    Your forgetting, Graham has had games this season? He just is a thousand miles beneath the level he set himself last season.
    Me, I don't care who plays. I just want the best possible players out for us. I can tell you now what the result of playing him will be.
    But I do think it's a better option than Armstrong. Or Brereton. Or Gallagher. Who isn't a winger. Like Bennett isn't a RB.
    I'll agree that it's worth bringing back DG. Not because of form he's been woeful. But so have the others. Who didn't arrive as poor players to this club.

  7. #27
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    Mar 2009
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    Sorry, Champs. Although I accept that there are elements of truth in some of your statements, I regard a lot of what you say as gross exaggeration. One example: in his first couple of games as the "wide forward", Gallagher looked well suited to the role - as he did during his first spell with us.
    And you haven't said a word about my points with regard to our overall position and the performance of other teams.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    Sorry, Champs. Although I accept that there are elements of truth in some of your statements, I regard a lot of what you say as gross exaggeration. One example: in his first couple of games as the "wide forward", Gallagher looked well suited to the role - as he did during his first spell with us.
    And you haven't said a word about my points with regard to our overall position and the performance of other teams.
    So did you think he looked good on Sat? And how about Armstrong? Forget the oppo. Barnsley are bottom, and haven't won since the opening day. They out played us. And I've never seen a luckier win. If you disagree, ask Sven what he saw? As I'm not the only one.

  9. #29
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    Jul 2010
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    Lots of shouts of "sort it out Mowbray" from the JW Upper and it will get worse.

    Our manager does not know how to get the best out of his squad, they are constantly under achieving.
    We do not have a tactical plan, if we do the players do not understand it.

    Today he is blaming the fans for a lack of support.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by seventwo View Post
    Lots of shouts of "sort it out Mowbray" from the JW Upper and it will get worse.

    Our manager does not know how to get the best out of his squad, they are constantly under achieving.
    We do not have a tactical plan, if we do the players do not understand it.

    Today he is blaming the fans for a lack of support.

    Not that anyone bothers going much anymore, the ones who did have to sit through that mess on Saturday all booed at HT. That first half was pathetic. The second half was worse. Everyone around me booed in the Riverside. Alot of them have been sat around me for years and aren't the moaning sort. Just everybody to a man is just fed up of watching us, we are awful to watch, other than the odd 20 in spell here and there. Its juts frustrating. People have just had enough.
    Bottom of the league outplayed us. And looked a better side, played better football, and had a better manager.

    I can see him blaming everyone as this carries on. He blames players, that's why Raya left.
    He blames players this season, blamed Walton publicly after PNE. No matter what you don't do that.
    He blamed Johnson too. He is saying some very off things before and after games, which tells me he is struggling. He changes the team every week, which isn't working. He is playing average players out of position and they simply cant do what he is asking them to.

    I was gutted leaving on sat. Deflated, we robbed them blind. And those 3 points just keeps him here. It was the worst performance I have had to endure for years. And this season I have rarely enjoyed watching us.
    All season I have been saying, we are just heading backwards. This guy has done a great job getting us back to here. But right now, we are not heading forwards.

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