Match Thread vs. Hartlepool 22..02.20

[Riverleeno]

I was at Woking too, and I said to my other half that I thought Ardley would be annoyed with Bird simply because he was playing those long forward balls.

He played them well, largely, last week, but it is clear that the style Ardley wants to play is possession and playing out from the back through midfield. Now, you can agree or disagree with that as a plan - many do - but it's what the manager has asked for and Bird doesn't / didn't do it.

If he doesn't follow the gameplan / instruction, is it really a surprise that Ardley doesn't want to put him in the team?

And, by the way, I've liked Pierce Bird when I've seen him play.

If that *is* the case regarding Bird / Ardley then that would sum up much that is wrong with the performances. Playing across the back four for a while doesn't put pressure on the opposition. If I was an average Non-league defender playing against Notts I'd be glad the ball wasn't going to Roberts or Enzio quickly.

[Riverleeno]

Pingu with the post of the year so far.

Nailed it. The "Gerrit forward" brigade are just the worst. No matter how many sideways passes and neat triangles inside our own half Ardley produces, game after game, season after season of aimless lumps forwards, hit it long up to the big man from all angles and feeding off scraps et al. I've had my fill of it already.

I don't think people, at least I'm not, are asking for the team to aimlessly get it forward, or lump it upfield. Its just that very often the back four and midfield, presumably because the manager tells them, seem to prefer playing sideways and backward rather than choosing to play a forward pass that will put pressure on the opposition. When we have got O'Brien and Doyle in midfield, we should be able to play Osbourne to provide creativity rather than putting Rose in there as well.

[Riverleeno]

Passing it around the defence in triangles is the most pointless tactic that we could possibly employ. I feel very strongly about that. These defenders are playing in the conference, the nature of their positions on the field means that the majority of them do not possess silky passing abilities! Why would you ask the worst passers on the team to pass it around the most risky part of the field? It's ludicrous. It is also incredibly predictable and easy to play against. Any decent opposition know that all they need to do is press us until somebody inevitably makes a mistake. I have never seen a Notts side give the ball away so often as this side does. It's painful.

What happens is that eventually a defender will play it forward, bypassing midfield. The ball will be intercepted and immediately we are on the back foot. There is literally no argument to suggest this tactic is working. Arguably the best forward players in the league are starved of service game after game. It DOESN'T WORK!!!

On these pitches against this opposition and with these players, direct is how we should be playing. Let their defenders make the mistakes and let's actually use some of the pace we have in the side.

Just read this post, sums up what I'm thinking.

[arnapie]

Tip Tap rubbish. Ref indicates 4 mins injury time, we have the ball, we make 9 passes, keeper has 3 of those passes, and we didn't get the ball any further forward than Doyle, who passed it back to the "keeper". Loads of fans left at half time, it didn't take a lot of working out how that game was going.

Changing the subject some what, Ardley has lost any support / respect I had left, when he decided that the away fans weren't worth a brief visit and clap for travelling in that weather, and sitting in the coldest dump I have ever been.

[laddo]

So you don't think he's getting the best from the squad, but want to stick with him because he provides "stability"!

Great stuff laddo, keep it coming.

I want to stick with the same manager for a whole season , I know it's a rarity at Meadow Lane but it's not too much to ask for is it? You really do love to chop and change every season.

Rarely do mangers get the best from their squads. Prime example, how many of the last 10 or 20 Notts managers got the best out of the squad? I can't think of many, maybe 3.

And a second question how long does a Notts manager, not just Neal Ardley but any of our past managers, need to have in order to know whether he gets the best or anywhere close to best out of the squad? Half a season? A full season? Season and a half? How long is fair to give them before you pass judgement?

So in essence that's 3 simple questions for you to. I'm interested to hear your answers.

[Glad2BeAPie]

Tip Tap rubbish. Ref indicates 4 mins injury time, we have the ball, we make 9 passes, keeper has 3 of those passes, and we didn't get the ball any further forward than Doyle, who passed it back to the "keeper". Loads of fans left at half time, it didn't take a lot of working out how that game was going.

Changing the subject some what, Ardley has lost any support / respect I had left, when he decided that the away fans weren't worth a brief visit and clap for travelling in that weather, and sitting in the coldest dump I have ever been.

That's right treat the fans with contempt, totally unaceptable.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

Ha - I know - we agree on several things but I know we differ here. Maybe you sit with some more enlightened folk around you, but I still see the thirst for drama far too much, on here more than anywhere. Having just had two chairmen who went through a couple of managers a season, I just feel like the fanbase as a body is addicted to the need for change... or just gossip.

Just analyse a few of the messes we have seen in the last few years. Every season there is moaning because we haven't signed players within the first few days of the offseason. Yet when Ray Trew would come on here and say something was close, he was pilloried when nothing happened. If he said nothing, then "there's a culture of secrecy / he doesn't care about the fans / he's not trying to invest". Relationships break down, he's gone. So we get another one who wants to appease the fans, and we do the same cycle over and over - apart from that one season where Nolan was winning pretty much every week (and the football was still "boring"), which is the only thing that shuts Notts fans up for a while. I mean, we even had posts on here about how could the Danes possibly leave us all guessing as to whether they had made a bid back in the summer, why couldn't they just tweet something to let everyone feel good.

Another example is the amount of guff on here about what managers say to the press. Who the hell cares? Steve Thompson made jokes on the radio, so what? He was useless the first time, and we reappointed him to be useless again. Keith Curle was boring and had nothing to say. So what? He had our best league finish in god knows how long.

Tonight we have Ardley not saying that we will crush Fylde as some massive issue. I ask again, so what?? I've been very lucky to be a fan of the New England Patriots in the NFL for 20 odd years. Go watch clips of our Head Coach's press conferences on YouTube sometime. They are legendary, because he says NOTHING. Nothing that the other team can use as motivation, nothing that could be used as information, he doesn't even use it to big up his own players - he just coaches them up, makes great game plans, and then kicks seven shades out of teams. We've won 6 Superbowls and he's generally credited with being the best coach there has ever been. Similar stuff with Gregg Popovich with San Antonio in the NBA; he borders on being rude when interviewed. It doesn't matter, it's all just tosh to fill airtime. I'm not saying Ardley is Belichick or Popovich, far, far, FAR from it, but look at how much people are getting their knickers in a twist over what he says to Radio Nottingham. He should tell the players to go out there, believe they are the best, and to rip the other team to pieces... when he's with them.

Funnily enough, I'm closer to your view on Ardley anyway; I'm still not sure of him, I perhaps have a bit more hope than you, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that it works out even if I have my concerns. My real issue is that should he go, it won't really matter who we get next in the mind of most Notts fans, because they will simply be the next one to tear down.

I like your posts on this thread Pingu and you have offered lots of food for thought as I’ve read the entire thread.

Upon reflection for me we are at a crucial point in the season now with 1/4 of it left. It’s the business end. I think what is starting to emerge (certainly on here) amongst fans is the formation of opinions where we are either going to go one way or the other. We will either push on and secure a playoff space or we will drop off and finish upper mid table.

It’s becoming a bit like a boiling pot because with each passing game the intensity and pressure will increase. As with last season we now have 12 cup finals.

In my time supporting Notts the most successful seasons were 98/99 Allardyce, 09/10 Munto and 17/18 Nolan. The Curle season missing out on the playoffs season was also notable. So I can only judge how we were in those seasons and use that as a marker to compare this season to.

I think we got the defence spot on and by Christmas it was running smoothly. Slocombe, Lacey, Rawlinson were the triangle that made us solid. The injury to Slocombe was a massive blow in my opinion because regardless of Fitz or McDonnel coming into replace him it still disruptive when you lose a keeper. Imagine if we had lost Casper in the Munto season? Then to add insult to injury literally we lose Lacey. The whole central defensive triangle has collapsed. Imagine losing Edwards or Lea back then. So for the past month we’ve been like we were at the start of the season again as new players find their feet.

I don’t understand how we have had so much bad luck with defenders and injuries this season.

Also the past month has been our driest in front of goal to date this season. Since Wootton signing he’s dropped off form and Thomas has been suspended which has meant Dennis has started more games but he seems better as an impact player. However if he’s not given the service or the ball where he wants then it’s going to be tricky. Was it the correct thing to do to send Tyson out on loan?

In terms of our style of play I like the passing game and think football should be played properly on the floor. If we want to play possession football and dominate teams playing that style it’s refreshing and good to see. As you have mentioned we have seen a lot of hoof ball over the years. I can’t speak for others but it’s more about the effectiveness of the style. If we can create chances and win games playing passing and possession based game then nobody cares.

What has frustrated me this season is at times certainly at home we have played our passing and possession game but offered little threat going forward at crucial times in the game. Or we have been slow to make a threat or create a chance. If we are losing or drawing a game with fift.een minutes to go then do we want to try and get the win instead of a draw or a draw instead of defeat? This is where we could have turned four of the draws into wins had we gone for it. This is where I think the “gerrit forward” chants you refer to are born from. Frustrating at a perception of not using the time in the game left to try and score by passing forward and creating as many chances as possible. In the Nolan playoff season we grabbed points at the end of games by being direct.

For our style of play I think we are at our best if we take a lead early on or and have a game wrapped up at half time or after about 60-75 minutes. That is where we can pass and retain possession and dominate in that respect and it doesn’t matter so much about “getting it forward“ because we are in control and our defence has been solid.

In the Munto season Cotteril came in and made the defence solid first. We did that. Then we were clinical in front of goal. We did that up and till the past month. That season we had the right mix of creativity and spoilers in midfield. We have that. Unfortunately apart from over Christmas and arguably September and October we have not been consistent enough hence the number of draws. However that’s the past it’s gone. It’s what we do between now and the end of April that will decide where we finish.

1.) Carry on as we have in the last five league games getting a point a game and we finish on 63 points. No playoffs.

2.) Carry on our season average of 1.5 points a game and we finish on 69 points. Touch and go and if we finish in the playoffs it will be by the skin of our teeth. Basically where we are now if the season finished today.

3.) Automatic promotion form of 2 points a game and we finish on 75 points. Likely 3rd place finish.

4.) Go back to the title winning form at Christmas and we finish on 81 points. Probably enough for 2nd or 3rd place.

Right now I think finishing in the playoffs is in the balance.

[navypie]

Tip Tap rubbish. Ref indicates 4 mins injury time, we have the ball, we make 9 passes, keeper has 3 of those passes, and we didn't get the ball any further forward than Doyle, who passed it back to the "keeper". Loads of fans left at half time, it didn't take a lot of working out how that game was going.

Changing the subject some what, Ardley has lost any support / respect I had left, when he decided that the away fans weren't worth a brief visit and clap for travelling in that weather, and sitting in the coldest dump I have ever been.

I didn't see many, if any fans (some may have lingered in the bar longer than others ) leaving at half time. We left on the final whistle so I don't know about Ardley coming over or not but I can assure you, I've sat watching Notts in colder dumps than that.

[bobbilly]

I live in Hartlepool, have been looking forward to this match all season as I can walk there.

How come Notts Cr@ppty FC turned up ?

[navypie]

I live in Hartlepool, have been looking forward to this match all season as I can walk there.

How come Notts Cr@ppty FC turned up ?

Not out of choice, surely!