Coronavirus and football.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I guess we will never know how many typhoid Mary's are around spreading it but exhibiting no symptoms, until we can test 100% of the people, which even in Germany and South Korea ain't going to happen

[ramAnag]

That explains faildale then..... Oh hang on 🤔

I was with you until that last sentence, but not for the reasons you may think. The inference in the sentence is that the world is still profit driven rather than solution driven. What evidence do you have for this?

I deal with many businesses in my day to day job and every one of them has taken a compassionate approach to handling the situation (obviously I don't deal with Branson) helped admittedly by a very generous (despite a few flaws) support programme from government.

Looks like yet another sideswipe at "capitalism" for no good reason, and it undermines your entire argument. Yes there will be some exploiters out there, who are to be condemned, but by and large business has responded admirably, being acutely aware that the peace needs to be won after the war ends.

I’m not ‘sideswiping’ at anyone GP. The facts of the matter are that the World needs to get back to work but there has to be a real concern that if the approach to something like ‘normality’ occurs too soon then we will be back to ‘square one’ or worse.

To take an example, there are very few world leaders that I trust and Trump is somewhere near the bottom of that list. The impact that Coronavirus is having on the USA is not his fault, but it has had a massive impact on his personal vanity project...the US economy, hence - imo - his ridiculous comments at the beginning of the crisis and his more recent and equally facile one...that ‘this will all be done by Easter’.

Trump is the ultimate capitalist and a man who has an entirely defective ‘moral compass’, but however much he wishes to see the US return to work and however understandable that may be, I cannot see how the world can return to normal productivity before a vaccine is found and the idea that such a solution is not made freely available to the whole World, rather than just the rich West, just means - again imo - that the virus will return time and time again.

I am not opposed to ‘capitalism’ - as you repeatedly suggest. I am opposed to greed and unscrupulous capitalism.

On the subject of being misunderstood. I note that the head of the BMA has called for government investigation of why BAME people seem more susceptible to Coronavirus.
So, as I said at the time, Tricky...it would seem Zarah Sultana was not the ‘plank’ you suggested her to be. Race may well be a factor, as of course are age and, apparently, gender.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Has anyone suggested that this "not yet here vaccine" should only be given to the west, or is this another pre-emptive strike from yourself! Also your suggestion that the vaccine should be given to everyone, so that "we" don't get covid again is a tad disingenuous: everyone should get it so THEY don't die.

As I said a couple of days back, Sultana may have a point re susceptibility, but to then instantly link it to being underprivileged is a bridge too far. You may just as well take the example of sickle cell anaemia - pretty much exclusively a black disease - and claim that its due to BAME underprivilege. No, its a simple genetic difference. Not all humans are the same. There may be a genetic reason why some ethnic groups are more susceptible - and who knows, we may discover one group that is immune which would be a great leap forward.

[Trickytreesreds]

On the subject of being misunderstood. I note that the head of the BMA has called for government investigation of why BAME people seem more susceptible to Coronavirus.
So, as I said at the time, Tricky...it would seem Zarah Sultana was not the ‘plank’ you suggested her to be. Race may well be a factor, as of course are age and, apparently, gender.


No RA, you're wrong mucker.
She is a plank. Maybe she worded it wrong, but did jump on the band wagon to race into a poor little me, story.
This is the problem. The card has been played so many times now, it's wearing rather thin and doesn't wash anymore.

It's like the idiots blocking tram lines here, with chained bodies and black lives matter placards.
Just jumped on the band wagon, with the race card after USA did it, even though it had no substance here.
No all lives matter, but black lives.
If she's clung to poor people are suffering more, I'd listen. But oh no, any chance taken to get the race card in there.

Like GP says, until someone gives me a graph showing ethnics are suffering more than anyone else, I'll take it for what it is shall I. Crap.

[ramAnag]

That explains faildale then..... Oh hang on ��

Has anyone suggested that this "not yet here vaccine" should only be given to the west, or is this another pre-emptive strike from yourself! Also your suggestion that the vaccine should be given to everyone, so that "we" don't get covid again is a tad disingenuous: everyone should get it so THEY don't die.

As I said a couple of days back, Sultana may have a point re susceptibility, but to then instantly link it to being underprivileged is a bridge too far. You may just as well take the example of sickle cell anaemia - pretty much exclusively a black disease - and claim that its due to BAME underprivilege. No, its a simple genetic difference. Not all humans are the same. There may be a genetic reason why some ethnic groups are more susceptible - and who knows, we may discover one group that is immune which would be a great leap forward.

Hmmm...where have I said, ‘the vaccine should be given to everyone so that ‘we’ don’t get Covid again’?

That’s right...I haven’t. I’ve simply said that drugs companies need to set profit aside and ensure that Covid-19 is eradicated from the whole World not just Europe and the USA. It is time to put national/company self interest to one side and treat this as a solution to a world wide problem. So, no sort of ‘pre-emptive strike’ as you call it, but let’s face it...whether it be how the establishment handles the price of cancer fighting drugs, it’s attitude to climate change, or the unedifying sight of countries scrapping over ventilator deals...the leading players have hardly covered themselves in glory so far have they?

On the subject of Coronavirus and BAME people. Tricky originally suggested that the MP who first raised this question was a ‘plank’ for doing so and sought to liken her to his favourite hate object, Diane Abbott (and ‘coincidentally’ David Lammy) in the process.
It may, as you suggest, be a question of ‘genetic difference’, it may be related to the fact that a disproportionate number of BAME live in relative poverty or it may be the result of some of the lifestyle choices which Ram59 intelligently highlighted.
I don’t know...but I do know that the MP was quite right to raise the concern (that’s all she did) and it is a concern that now seems to have been further validated by the head of the BMA.

[Geoff Parkstone]

No, that's not all she did where I read it: she did not just raise the concern, she immediately leaped to the reason that it's because they are underprivileged.

There are three possible reasons you set out above, even assuming there is a susceptibility difference, but genetic and behavioural were not on her radar: which appeared to me to be point scoring. Maybe you read diffeent reports.

[Ram59]

It amazes me what some 'intelligent' people say.

The head of the BMA has asked the government to investigate why BAME people seem to be adversally affected by the virus.

For flips sake, doesn't he think that there are thousands of scientists all over the world already looking for any kind of link to those affected and those who aren't effected, so that they can come up with some kind of vaccine? What does he think a few politicians can do, in comparison?

It sometimes scares me that these people get into such positions.

[ramAnag]

No, that's not all she did where I read it: she did not just raise the concern, she immediately leaped to the reason that it's because they are underprivileged.

There are three possible reasons you set out above, even assuming there is a susceptibility difference, but genetic and behavioural were not on her radar: which appeared to me to be point scoring. Maybe you read diffeent reports.

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps it got ‘lost in translation’, I don’t know.

The point is...there is, or appears to be, an issue relating to ethnicity, and although the ‘age, weight and infirmity’ aspects are fairly universal with all diseases, there may also be an issue with the gender factor.

Put it this way...there are no guarantees, but I would fancy my chances of avoiding this joy sucking virus more as a 35 year white female than as an fifty something year old Asian guy. That needs looking into both from a preventative and an investigative point of view, just as it would if things were the other way round.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Absolutely correct rA, but I'd sooner the 50 year old Asian's chance over mine as an over 60 diabetic. Maybe that means I'm underprivileged 😁

Diabetes - another one of those that is more prevalent in Indian sub continent, despite there being less obesity. I believe primarily down to genetical disposition towards it, with a higher degree of insulin resistance for some reason. Not just diet, environment or behavioural.

[Geoff Parkstone]

The gender factor in the incidence of COVID (more male) could be not entirely unrelated to the selfsame demographics applying to wilful failure to obey social distancing "rules" which is predominantly 18-35 male. We blokes just don't like being told what to do!!