Covid 19 and the Media

[swaledale]

Of course it did.
Pre UKIP, discontent with the same old political stance remained unchanged.
Discontent with the European train was going unanswered, ignored and brushed off as a nuisance.

UKIP come along with a mandate to remove the UK from the EU. Finally voters get a party to vote for, that is going to try to do exactly what they desire.
All of a sudden, the major parties have to look worried, especially the Conservatives.
So to win back voters, a referendum is promised. They didn't expect it turn out the way it did, but offer it they did and promised to uphold it.
We don't need to go over old ground here. But change politics it did.

The last election showed that. Constituencies that had never been Conservative, became so because the bloody useless Labour party still couldn't repsect that vote.

Now if that doesn't count as change in your eyes I give up.
No one expected UKIP to run the country. All they wanted was the main parties to take their gripe seriously. They didn't and now you're entrenched with a Tory governemnt and a Labour party at its lowest point for 90 years.

That's my polite answer.

Ah so Brexit is the change thats down to UKIP? Mm and heres me thinking that Brexit was essentially down to Cameron trying to resolve a schism thats been at the heart of the Tory party for decades, has hamstrung and even forced the resignation of Tory leaders - and yes I'll grant you UKIP saw an opening to force the issue, and Cameron reacted in a manner which he didn't need to and promptly buggered off when things didn't work out!

What exactly was the gripe that UKIP wanted to be treated seriously - bearing in mind that amongst the beguiling anti eu sentiment, lurked policies like privatisation of the NHS, repeal of laws which defended workers rights and other things you'd think the common man would be in favour of?

As for putting the Tory's gaining control of some labour seats, its rather simplistic to suggest that this was down to labours waverings over Brexit, it was rather more complex than that, including a leader that for whatever reason people didn't like, a badly organised confused campaign and people who were fed up with the discussion about whether to drive over the cliff or not and thought lets just drive over the cliff and see what happens!

I rather think a certain blond lying, waffling git, who when considering whether supporting leave or remain would offer him the best chance of achieving his ambitions, chose leave (even though he didn't believe it) and then used his charm to tell lies and make promises he couldn't and had no intention of keeping and amazingly there were enough stupid people who believed him.

So UKIP had an effect, not sure its changed politics for good, it seems to me we still have a government composed of talentless lying *******s who care about their own careers, influenced by rich tax avoiders who seek a deregulated economy which works for them and exploits the common man!

On the whole I blame the Tory's for the mess we are in, UKIP were not that significant really.

On the other hand of course you may be right, after all even Hitler boosted the german economy in the early days and he did get good roads built! Just a shame about the collateral damage inflicted on millions of those who voted for him originally!

[swaledale]

Yesterday we had a thread closed and a poster admonished for personal abuse. Im struggling to see how this is any different and hopefully the same action is taken.

What is interesting is that when the selfsame jokes were made by Adi elsethread, no abuse was received - perhaps because Adi is a self proclaimed left thinker, whilst Tricky is not. Odd that.

I believe it is time that the hectoring bullying and personal abuse from "various sources" desists. Im all for constructive debate, disagreement and the occasional piss take, but this has now reached a ridiculous level of abuse. Just read the above few posts please, Andy.

The great irony of course is that the purveyor of the majority of the abuse is himself the great gaurdain of free speech, equality and the right to an opinion. Squaring that circle is rather difficult.

I may not agree with Tricky's views but I will defend to the death his right to have and express them without being subjected to ridicule and abuse. to paraphrase Evelyn Hall and maybe Voltaire

Aldi a left thinker? Your having a laugh surely?

Look lets face it, this Forum is peopled on the whole by sad old white men on the right of the political spectrum who dislike change and stick to outdated outmoded points of view which in no way replicate the views of the majority of this country.

And when confronted with ludicrous posts from someone who cites the daily express as gospel or dodgy twitter and other internet sources then frankly whats the point of a debate? The guys barking mad, and has posted stuff on here which is clearly bigoted, xenophobic, and racist. He is a total **** and thats an accurate description.

I've tried the informed debate approach, I explained clearly with hard facts as to why any suggestion that the BBC was a lefty organisation was utter crap - its senior reporters and leadership including the chairman have more direct links to the Tory party than any other political party - its conservative with a small c, but with some pretty hefty BIG C influence.

But hey I don't give a flying **** arguing with most of you is a waste of time because clearly you know **** all!

[Andy_Faber]

sad old white men. The guys barking mad. He is a total ****. I don't give a flying ****. Clearly you know **** all!

Reads like outtakes from withnail and I, have your thumbs gone wierd?

[Ram59]

Oh come on! White middle aged men are disadvantaged? There are endless support groups who cover and campaign for issues affecting you and others. Pull the other ****ing one! As for normal well thats in the eye of the beholder isn't it, plus ca difference I say.

I'm still waiting for my endless list, oh wise one.

[Andy_Faber]

outmoded points of view which in no way replicate the views of the majority of this country.

for starters where's your provenance for that claim, and even if you have any which I doubt because you usually don't, the views of a significant minority also matter and there IS a significant minority who care nothing for up to date, 'modern' points of view

[Andy_Faber]

I'm still waiting for my endless list, oh wise one.

I think we're bashing on the same door, I'll leave you to it but don't hold your breath!

[Ram59]

I think we're bashing on the same door, I'll leave you to it but don't hold your breath!

I suppose being as the list is endless, he's still writing it.

I'll be reasonable Swale, just give me list you've got up to now, or even just the first 5 will do.

[Trickytreesreds]

I suppose being as the list is endless, he's still writing it.

I'll be reasonable Swale, just give me list you've got up to now, or even just the first 5 will do.

You'll have to wait a while. He's probably sleeping off the mother of all hang overs after that rant

[ramAnag]

I suppose being as the list is endless, he's still writing it.

I'll be reasonable Swale, just give me list you've got up to now, or even just the first 5 will do.

Ram, I’ll try and answer this point sensibly and non divisively.
I’m not actually a fan of ‘positive discrimination’, but do recognise that minorities - physical, intellectual, gender based or racial - do need support which sometimes only emerges through pressure groups.
Returning to the support groups you search for from Swale...they may not always be official...but next time you’re out and about take a look around you. Whether you’re at Pride Park - particularly the South Stand, or your local pub, or your Church (Catholic or CoE), your Working Men’s Club, the local rugby club, the local cricket club and - possibly Normanton aside - local housing estates and you’ll find yourself surrounded by...people like you. Your group is the majority, the group you and I fit into with ease.
That’s not a criticism it’s just how it is and until you’re on the outside of that majority you’ll struggle to understand how being part of a minority feels.
Being white, middle aged, whatever class etc doesn’t need a pressure group. You are already part of that majority, dominant group. If you’ve got specific concerns about health issues, money worries, marital breakdown, bereavement etc the support network is there, hopefully for all colours, creeds and classes.
It’s the fitting in, the acceptance, the lack of head turning or cruel comment when minorities walk into an overwhelmingly white able bodied environment that still needs to change.

[Geoff Parkstone]

All of which makes perfect sense rA, but none of it answers Ram's call for a single example off Swale's endless list, let alone 5 or the full manifest.