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Thread: Almost Worst In Europe - Coronavirus

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TipperaryBaggie View Post
    I think that are right Stripes. The stats won't wont lie and probably show that we haven't done too bad compared with the rest of Europe.

    That's the point Tip - already stats show we already are the second worst in Europe and soon when we overtake Italy in the coming days, we will be the worst. Many would say being an Island, we should have less issues with countries who have a road for a border - then again with no/little control of who came in, some would say borders are ineffective.

    Love them or dislike them - the German efficiency seems to have led the way once again! Fast with tracing and fast with testing - the old quote is so true - “By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.”

  2. #12
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    I think it is impossible to know now what the stats will show, what approach was the most effective one etc, if ever it will be possible?

    If you have a strict lockdown, and then open up, the death figures may very well rise. The State Epidemiologist of Finland (early and strict lockdown) said they had too few who had caught the virus and will therefore be stuck with it ”infinitely”, and most likely have a peak mid autumn.

    Belgium had an early and very strict lockdown, and they have been hit harder than most, yet again, so far.

    New Zealand are supposedly on the verge of eradicating the virus after having had a very strict lockdown (island, ”far away”, scarcely populated). But, what will happen when they do open up!? A democracy can hardly be in a lockdown until there is a vaccine?

    Many Epidemiologists believe that the outcome will be approx the same for all, strict lockdowns or lighter ones etc. Other things can play a much bigger part as eg ”old sins”. How well prepared were you in terms of supplies/stock of medicine etc? How is the standard of your care homes for the elderly, have they been neglected over the years or not? How many people work zero hour contracts and therefore can’t afford staying home from work, when maybe feeling a bit unwell? How many people have poor living conditions and therefore live to ”closely and densely” and with mixed generations? And of course some sort of randomness can of course play a part etc, etc...

    And, when and if there are stats that show something about how different countries handled this, health problems and deaths caused by lockdowns and similar measures must be included, which makes this extremely difficult.

    All in all, very difficult to be certain of anything, but I believe in a balance between an ”open society” and prudent guidelines about what to do or not.

    Good to see the old ”doom and gloom approach” (normally about the Albion) is still prevalent among some. 😎

    Stay safe. 😊
    Last edited by SwedishBaggie; 30-04-2020 at 11:54 AM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishBaggie View Post
    I think it is impossible to know now what the stats will show, what approach was the most effective one etc, if ever it will be possible?

    If you have a strict lockdown, and then open up, the death figures may very well rise. The State Epidemiologist of Finland (early and strict lockdown) said they had too few who had caught the virus and will therefore be stuck with it ”infinitely”, and most likely have a peak mid autumn.

    Belgium had an early and very strict lockdown, and they have been hit harder than most, yet again, so far.

    New Zealand are supposedly on the verge of eradicating the virus after having had a very strict lockdown (island, ”far away”, scarcely populated). But, what will happen when they do open up!? A democracy can hardly be in a lockdown until there is a vaccine?

    Many Epidemiologists believe that the outcome will be approx the same for all, strict lockdowns or lighter ones etc. Other things can play a much bigger part as eg ”old sins”. How well prepared were you in terms of supplies/stock of medicine etc? How is the standard of your care homes for the elderly, have they been neglected over the years or not? How many people work zero hour contracts and therefore can’t afford staying home from work, when maybe feeling a bit unwell? How many people have poor living conditions and therefore live to ”closely and densely” and with mixed generations? And of course some sort of randomness can of course play a part etc, etc...

    And, when and if there are stats that show something about how different countries handled this, health problems and deaths caused by lockdowns and similar measures must be included, which makes this extremely difficult.

    All in all, very difficult to be certain of anything, but I believe in a balance between an ”open society” and prudent guidelines about what to do or not.

    Good to see the old ”doom and gloom approach” (normally about the Albion) is still prevalent among some. ��

    Stay safe. ��
    100%

  4. #14
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    Cant stand the Government bashing. I would bet my life savings on any one on here spending a day with the Government and seeing the impossible task they have along with all other countries to deal with this situation. You would be ashamed. Why are you looking for someone to blame? Why? It doesn't make sense. I don't need to say anything else, seriously there is nothing more depressing that people looking for someone to blame as if they would of course done a much better job than the Government.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by boingy View Post
    Cant stand the Government bashing. I would bet my life savings on any one on here spending a day with the Government and seeing the impossible task they have along with all other countries to deal with this situation. You would be ashamed. Why are you looking for someone to blame? Why? It doesn't make sense. I don't need to say anything else, seriously there is nothing more depressing that people looking for someone to blame as if they would of course done a much better job than the Government.

    I am supportive of this government and especially Boris but still stand by what I have said - we were too slow, not prepared and did not learn lessons quickly from Italy. Even Whitty has said we have a lot to learn from Germany - better tracing - huge testing - more ventilators and no real issues with PPE. From the horses mouth as such - “ we have a lot to learn “

    Personally - I hope we don’t ease the lock down too quickly!! Also the furlough scheme was poorly organised as many who needed financial help did not meet the criteria! How the f uckin hell can football clubs like Newcastle furlough their staff along with the Beckhams!! Both owners are worth millions!!!

    Keep strong now Boris - tell Branson to f uck himself with any bail out just like the Australian government have done!

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by boingy View Post
    Cant stand the Government bashing. I would bet my life savings on any one on here spending a day with the Government and seeing the impossible task they have along with all other countries to deal with this situation. You would be ashamed. Why are you looking for someone to blame? Why? It doesn't make sense. I don't need to say anything else, seriously there is nothing more depressing that people looking for someone to blame as if they would of course done a much better job than the Government.
    Spot on!

  7. #17
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    Regardless of the fact that a lot of black and Asian people have caught Covid compared to white people i’ve been struck by how many of the dead and the very sick are overweight.

    Almost every feature on this about someone who’s died or who is in intensive care or who has thankfully survived being in hospital has featured someone who’s carrying a lot of weight.

    Even those in their 20’s and 30’s have in the main being carrying far too much weight.

    This can’t be coincidence.

    If you’re lungs have to work overtime to pump blood around an unfit and obese body then you can’t expect things to go well when those same lungs are dealing with a decease such as Covid.

    It’s okay blaming the government and everyone else for something like this and yes,they have got things wrong with PPE as we all know but I wonder how many people are thinking to themselves......”Jesus,I really need to socially distance from my fridge and sweet stash and get myself fit”.

    Not many I’ll bet.

    Take responsibility for yourself because there’s a clear indication that if you’re fat you’re at more risk.


    Just as I’ve posted this a feature on SKY is highlighting analysis by one study that shows that obesity is a major factor in Covid death.
    Last edited by mickd1961; 30-04-2020 at 01:37 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickd1961 View Post
    Regardless of the fact that a lot of black and Asian people have caught Covid compared to white people i’ve been struck by how many of the dead and the very sick are overweight.

    Almost every feature on this about someone who’s died or who is in intensive care or who has thankfully survived being in hospital has featured someone who’s carrying a lot of weight.

    Even those in their 20’s and 30’s have in the main being carrying far too much weight.

    This can’t be coincidence.

    If you’re lungs have to work overtime to pump blood around an unfit and obese body then you can’t expect things to go well when those same lungs are dealing with a decease such as Covid.

    It’s okay blaming the government and everyone else for something like this and yes,they have got things wrong with PPE as we all know but I wonder how many people are thinking to themselves......”Jesus,I really need to socially distance from my fridge and sweet stash and get myself fit”.

    Not many I’ll bet.

    Take responsibility for yourself because there’s a clear indication that if you’re fat you’re at more risk.
    The obese and smokers are def identified as having a higher risk, and that goes for any inensive care treatment as well.

    Off to the gym. 😎
    Last edited by SwedishBaggie; 30-04-2020 at 01:57 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishBaggie View Post
    The obese and smokers are def identified as having a higher risk, and that goes for any inensive care treatment as well.

    Off to the gym. 😎


    What are your thoughts on the measures in Sweden as it looks like infections are starting to increase although some do feel herd immunity could be a good thing as long as the elderly and vulnerable are protected.

    I agree being fit helps - that said I know of a really fit tennis coach who didn't drink or smoke with no underlying health issues and he dropped dead of a heart attack in his forties! I also know some really really old folk who swear by a daily spirit! Any GP will say - red wine in moderation can be good for you!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by baggieal View Post
    What are your thoughts on the measures in Sweden as it looks like infections are starting to increase although some do feel herd immunity could be a good thing as long as the elderly and vulnerable are protected.

    I agree being fit helps - that said I know of a really fit tennis coach who didn't drink or smoke with no underlying health issues and he dropped dead of a heart attack in his forties! I also know some really really old folk who swear by a daily spirit! Any GP will say - red wine in moderation can be good for you!
    I think it is the right way to go about it, on another thread I wrote something about it when Sweden are compared to other Scandinavian countries, copied in below - and in my earlier post on this thread I also shared my thoughts with global comparisons.

    Agreed about a moderate intake of alcohol, although I do not always myself abide by that rule... 😎😇

    From another thread:

    There are other reasons to Sweden having more deaths than eg Norway and Finland. Our care homes for the elderly have been sadly neglected over the years, people who work there are orten not esp trained/skilled/educated, many work zero hour contracts, and generally have poor working conditions. In Norway homes for the elderly are more like nursery homes with better qualified staff, better possibilities to seal off wards that have been infected etc.

    A majority of our deaths are of Somali and Iraqi descent, Finland have over the years almost zero immigration.

    Then, the overall view here is to look at the bigger picture, and also take into account how many deaths and health problems lock downs and similar measures cause, many believe they’d cause more, and I tend to agree.

    Then, the international media picture sometimes say ”Sweden haven’t done anything, everything goes on as usual” - well, that’s simply not true.

    Some countries with early and severe lock downs have been hit really hard, eg Belgium.

    This is very complex and there is no way now to know about ”the best and most correct way to go about it”.

    And, yes, I do blame China

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