World War 3

[Dubbag]

A lot of economies worldwide will suffer from the lockdown, the west in particular, China not so much if you believe what they say.
Do you really think that the west will say, Oh well, one of those things, can't be helped, and carry on trading with China like it never happened?

I think Mick more then explained the position China plays in the world economy. They crash without orders from the west.They need to grow by at least 5% just to stand still unlike the old world economies.
If you think China did this to destroy the west...then you don't understand global economies and how reliant they are on each other...Its a red herring For trade to exist...you need a buyer and a seller....other wise its not trade.
This event is bigger then trade....read between the lines in more detail Des....

[mickd1961]

A lot of economies worldwide will suffer from the lockdown, the west in particular, China not so much if you believe what they say.
Do you really think that the west will say, Oh well, one of those things, can't be helped, and carry on trading with China like it never happened?

The world will have no choice other than to carry on trading in the same way with China once this is over.

If you spend 40-50 years putting most of your trading capacity eggs into the one Chinese basket it then becomes impossible to quickly reverse that.

We are not alone in this,most countries have become reliant on the Far East.

I’m always amazed when I hear people in here and on FB etc saying......” f u c k ‘em,lets buy British” because it ain’t gonna happen.

The reason stuff is made in China is because the Totalitarian regime can tell the people what to do.

A lot of factory workers over there are lucky to get one day off a month and earn £200 a month.

People over here and in Europe expect to earn 15 times that per month for the same type of work.

Some things like PPE that are made on a 99.9% automated basis should be made here in bigger numbers but if you’re taking about the making of goods that require a person making them then you’re dreaming if you think it’s going to be made here.

In my own sphere of business if I wasn’t able to buy from China my only other option would be to buy from Pakistan and India but the quality from there is awful and I wouldn’t be able to sell it anyway as nobody would want it.

Products that I deal in have nobody making them in the U.K. or Europe and production stopped here the year I joined the sports trade in 1991.

Get real is my advice even though I hate being so reliant on China.

[Leicesterbaggie]

Basically, we have been caught out through the loss of our manufacturing industries. We have become too reliant on importing goods for our needs, especially from China. Countries like this produce goods so much cheaper because of cheap labour. If we learn anything from this pandemic it is that we must return to being a manufacturing nation and to forget the cheaper options from these countries. If we want to hit back at China this is the way to do it. We might also be able to produce items such as protective clothing in large enough amounts to satisfactorily protect our NHS workers and the like and not rely on buying from abroad.

[westcountryvillain]

Agree with you LB, I've often thought that the loss of manufacturing industries in Britain over the years would come back to bite us on the backside eventually. Our workforce has often been described as idle too, I guess if we were to return to these roots then the cost of goods would be considerably higher as well as sourcing raw materials outside of China.

[mickd1961]

Agree with you LB, I've often thought that the loss of manufacturing industries in Britain over the years would come back to bite us on the backside eventually. Our workforce has often been described as idle too, I guess if we were to return to these roots then the cost of goods would be considerably higher as well as sourcing raw materials outside of China.

That’s not strictly true WCV about sourcing of goods being more expensive outside China as the cost of whatever raw material is the same regardless of which country is buying it in.

China don’t possess all the raw materials needed such as oil or Graphite or whatever,they themselves are importing raw materials or in the case of things like steel they are geared up to make their own.

It’s the labour costs and no doubt the subsidised cost of factories and plant that give them their huge advantage.

If we decided we were going to start making everything here do you think people would be happy paying 10 to 20 times more for that item with s U.K. stamp on it than they do from China?

Of course they won’t.

Add to that the fact that the majority of our younger workforce want to do their degree in photography,journalism and hang gliding where exactly do you intend getting our required workers from!?

In the main,people here in the U.K. don’t want to do repetitive manual work which is why we have Polish picking our fruit and Philippino’s wiping out a r s e s in hospital.

Our workforce wants to spend half its day updating its social status on FB and the like,trolling “Plenty of fish” and w a n k I n g off to B r a z z e r s .com ( according to a friend )

Very few will do manual work and after Brexit there will be even less.

Like I said.....people need to get real.

[Lost city albion]

Not just china hp brown sauce made in holland only eaten here work that out.a british company lost a order to china for 1p per unit less but it adds up over thousands of units like mick says it would take a lifetime of change for the tide to turn

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Just not true that the UK is not a major manufacturer.

Depends which survey you use. I've seen some listing us as the world's 6th largest. Don't think I've seen us out of the top 10 on any list. For example Glasgow is Europe's biggest manufacturer of satellites and there is a company in Surrey which manufactures 40%+ of the world's mini
satellites.

Why do us Brits like to play down achievements?

Nonsense to think we can turn off the tap from China.

P.S.
Two things we are massively admired for around the world our entrepreneurship and engineering.

[mickd1961]

Just not true that the UK is not a major manufacturer.

Depends which survey you use. I've seen some listing us as the world's 6th largest. Don't think I've seen us out of the top 10 on any list. For example Glasgow is Europe's biggest manufacturer of satellites and there is a company in Surrey which manufactures 40%+ of the world's mini
satellites.

Why do us Brits like to play down achievements?

Nonsense to think we can turn off the tap from China.

P.S.
Two things we are massively admired for around the world our entrepreneurship and engineering.

It’s not about denigrating what we do well at all.

The problem is that the vast number of “consumables” that we use are made in the Far East and as you rightly say we can’t just expect to turn the China supply tap off.

The things we tend to be good at are technical and not “mass market” items.

We’re excellent at things like wings for aeroplanes but there’s not many people in the U.K. who phone up to order a wing.

The Far East dominates consumables.

I still maintain that stuff requiring very little manpower such as PPE could be made here though.

[baggieal]

It’s not about denigrating what we do well at all.

The problem is that the vast number of “consumables” that we use are made in the Far East and as you rightly say we can’t just expect to turn the China supply tap off.

The things we tend to be good at are technical and not “mass market” items.

We’re excellent at things like wings for aeroplanes but there’s not many people in the U.K. who phone up to order a wing.

The Far East dominates consumables.

I still maintain that stuff requiring very little manpower such as PPE could be made here though.

Completely correct! The financial major cost in any business is labour - sweat shops are still a plenty in China and workers are paid pennies. In the UK many of our own nationals are bone idle and prefer to pick up social handouts - did it not make you sick to see the planes chartered to bring Romanians here to pick fruit! Why does the government not use immigrants to pick fruit as there should be no such thing as a free lunch upon entry!

If you look at almost all the large supermarket chains including Walmart who own Asda - the majority of their suppliers are in China and that's for a simple reason - cost base!

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

It’s not about denigrating what we do well at all.

The problem is that the vast number of “consumables” that we use are made in the Far East and as you rightly say we can’t just expect to turn the China supply tap off.

The things we tend to be good at are technical and not “mass market” items.

We’re excellent at things like wings for aeroplanes but there’s not many people in the U.K. who phone up to order a wing.

The Far East dominates consumables.

I still maintain that stuff requiring very little manpower such as PPE could be made here though.

Don't disagree with a word of what you had said but anyone reading this thread would believe we make very little and that is not true. I had a similar conversation in the pub where the other 3 in the group were firmly of the opinion our manufacturing base had all but disappeared. I do like to challenge an incorrect statement.

As regards PPE the French were heavily criticised for stocking up on PPE after bird flu for 'wasting' money that could be better spent on other health services and de-stocked. In future I think most countries should try and become self sufficient in PPE so they are ready for the next one.

Serious question for anyone on here. Should we try and compete with China and a host of other Asian low cost economies?