resurgence of trade unions?

[Deeranged]

they have only become so by some member representatives crawling up white collar arses.
the trick is to expel those rat representatives and to avoid the pendulum swinging too far from where it is now.

why would anyone say that hard fought gains of the past are an outdated concept is beyond me,
i take it you said to your boss in the past,

nah its ok i dont want
paid holidays
proper health and safety
proper working conditions
proper pay

in my working life iv seen
well paid employees selling specific holidays for a misery amount,holidays that our fathers and grandfathers took a long time to gain
introducing temp workers
the near disappearance of apprenticeships
introducing 0 hour contracts
a manager who was trying to telling a guy he couldn't go to the doctor as he had to finish his postie round

the unions have been ruined by the whats in it for me shiiit houses who are only in it for themselves
the work place is hugely a safer place with unions than without them

Firstly I didn't say the gains were outdated I said the unions were. Just because they were effective back then (or ineffective where their actions resulted in job losses) doesn't mean they will be as effective now.

Secondly my background is in manufacturing and O&G so my experiences might be completely different to yours and others'.

Many of the hard fought gains of the past belong there; society has moved on. Public holidays for example are more and more just not recognised with an additional flexi day to use as you see fit put in their place. This stops the facility having to shut down on specified days. The worst case example of this would be the trades fortnight which very few employers recognise these days and removal of which gives the employee much more flexibility with their time off.

Health and safety is not a union responsibility it's a legal responsibility that employers must comply with. Maybe the unions were part of its implementation originally but these days employers must look after the H&S of employees and most will put a specialist in the position of HSE Manager / Advisor. The ones that don't employ such a person will likely use a sub contractor to advise them. Many companies have H&S committees on which union reps will sit, this is only a committee and is not responsible for implementation although obviously they can suggest or recommend. Where there are no unions within a company it's nominated employees that will sit on the committee doing exactly what the union rep would do. When something goes tragically wrong it's the MD that goes to jail not the union rep or the H&S committee.

Acceptable working conditions (physical) are again a legal requirement. Any employee that feels their working conditions are unsafe or detrimental to their health can report this to the HSE who have the power to issue notices that will force employers to improve conditions or risk temporary or total close down.

Employment conditions and pay. Sorry but when you're offered a job you know the pay and conditions such as pension and holiday entitlement, you sign as accepting them and enter a contract with an employer. I don't have time for anyone that accepts a role at a rate then complains that the pay and conditions aren't acceptable. Wouldn't be the first time I've asked someone 'well you accepted them so why are they suddenly unacceptable'? Tends to shut them up.

Temp workers are something I haven't encountered much so won't comment on.

There are still apprenticeships available. Difference now is that you don't have to be six**** and straight out of school with six 'O' Levels to get one so in fact are more inclusive. It's a question I always ask prospective suppliers to the company I work for, it costs them almost nothing to take on an apprentice and failure to do so shows an incredible lack of foresight in my opinion and will lower my opinion of them.

Again I've no experience of zero hour contracts so won't comment other than to say these are allowed by government and employers are going to take advantage. The issue lies further up the food chain than employers and I doubt unions could do much more than take membership fees from people on theses contracts when they fall under their remit.

The doctor thing's a difficult one to address. I've never had a problem with people going to the doctor in work time but I know that a lot of managers do. My doctor surgery is (normally) open for consultation from 8am to 6pm Monday to Friday and I think they'll see you on a Saturday morning if you really can't make it midweek. They also do telephone consultations which is something I've used myself many times. So I can't really see why anyone would be making an appointment at an appropriate time for a routine consultation. If the condition is so bad that they need to get to the doctor immediately they really shouldn't be at work.

I agree ref. the 'what's in it for me' part. Unions would have a place (my opinion) if they worked with employers rather than against them and only for the benefit of full time union officials who have no interest in the employees but only in lining their own pockets.

The work place is a hugely safer place due to health and safety legislation. A workplace with union representation is not necessarily any safer than one without.

[noahrab]

when i left school most of the mates went to apprenticeships some were sparkies/painters/mechanics/bakers/welders/engineering etc etc,apart from a few sparkies who usually get paid off when they get their ticket,i dont know any apprentices,and it will get lower now the michelin factory has shut,
out of curiousity how many apprentices do you know?

Parents like to send children to university these days...mostly so they can tell all that they have kids at university. Being an apprentice tradesman is discouraged at school as they have league tables to think of.

Being an apprentice tradesman is actually looked down upon in this country now when in fact they end up making more money and are smarter than a lot of their peers who went to uni.

Apprenticeships are still there as they have always been.

[Mudskipper]

Parents like to send children to university these days...mostly so they can tell all that they have kids at university. Being an apprentice tradesman is discouraged at school as they have league tables to think of.

Being an apprentice tradesman is actually looked down upon in this country now when in fact they end up making more money and are smarter than a lot of their peers who went to uni.

Apprenticeships are still there as they have always been.

This totally...I went into construction leaving school I’m not thick/stupid but not an academic either , but I wanted a hands on skill and I don’t regret it but at the time remember thinking wtf have I done in the dead of winter ...

I’ve never got the whole clamour for a Uni degree when your not really going to use it ,last week a girl on The Chase (that’s where I get my education)..🤣🤣 was studying marine biology....because she wanted to go into marketing ...what sorry I don’t get the connection, maybe my cousin had the right idea went into construction, sat his time went to Uni and did a QS degree ,is that what you want to do then ...f##k no but it was the easier one to get a stab at better jobs...I now sit in an office with guys doing the same job but have a degree , and I honestly think sometimes they are a wee bit envious when issues come up and I can come up with solutions almost instantly, not always right of course ...!!! but you just revert back to what you learned and apply it.

[Biffo_the_Bear]

No really what I was getting at rros my main point was Duncan Smith didn’t have a solution to the teachers fears his only thing was that the unions are messing about just get back to work and as long as their are his ilk around we will always need unions, I’ll leave the covid 19 stuff to yourself bud

[Returnofrros]

No really what I was getting at rros my main point was Duncan Smith didn’t have a solution to the teachers fears his only thing was that the unions are messing about just get back to work and as long as their are his ilk around we will always need unions, I’ll leave the covid 19 stuff to yourself bud

Ok.

It just comes across to me as like the most powerful unions come up with reasons not to as opposed to.

I'd suggest that if teachers were on say 50% of pay then there wouldn't be so much intransigence from the union and more working with the govt to find a balanced solution.

I honestly do not like where this country may end up.

I don't think many people will if the train ends up at the destination I think it will.

I Ken my views will never be popular on here (well mibbe the anti dab stuff) but it's how I see it.

[Biffo_the_Bear]

Wasn’t having a dig about the covid but your anti dab stuff will always be popular 😁 and I actually agree with quite a bit of your covid stuff although most of the stuff regarding the recession and money is obviously your game and most of it goes over my head

[Returnofrros]

Wasn’t having a dig about the covid but your anti dab stuff will always be popular 😁 and I actually agree with quite a bit of your covid stuff although most of the stuff regarding the recession and money is obviously your game and most of it goes over my head

Lol, it's no really my game I just keep talking till folk submit or **** off. 😁

I do like reading articles and books though from folk who do know what they are talking a boot on financial stuff.

See if Jdfc brought oot a book on postcodes I'd read it, nothing like listening to an expert😉

[petermackie]

Ok.


I'd suggest that if teachers were on say 50% of pay then there wouldn't be so much intransigence from the union and more working with the govt to find a balanced solution.

.

And there in lies the problem...the govt are not looking for a balanced solution it's their way and that's it unless you're at a private school (off until September)...think everyone realises the school's have to go back at some point but surely a bit of consultation with people involved would go a long way...

[Mudskipper]

No really what I was getting at rros my main point was Duncan Smith didn’t have a solution to the teachers fears his only thing was that the unions are messing about just get back to work and as long as their are his ilk around we will always need unions, I’ll leave the covid 19 stuff to yourself bud

IDS is proper old school Tory ,the modern ones have a soft smooth veneer but are the same underneath,he doesn’t give 2 f##ks and says what he likes...

[noahrab]

IDS is proper old school Tory ,the modern ones have a soft smooth veneer but are the same underneath,he doesn’t give 2 f##ks and says what he likes...

Much prefer a politician who says what they think to give you a glimpse of what they are really like than ones who try and dance round you with glib words bordering on gobbledygook. They are the worst.

Biggest culprits are the SNP.