OT. Schools...normality and Coronavirus.

[ramAnag]

So RA if the car had been invented today, a missile full of explosive liquid under sole human control and reliant upon the sanity etc. of the person driving it, you think it would just be accepted?

Also those deaths and injuries are very year, indeed were at one time much higher than that, but we have through design of cars and roads reduced this. And to say that every accident is caused by idiots is to take a very superior approach to the issue, anybody can have an accident through no fault of themselves or anyone else, or it can be a momentary error, not recklessness!

Anyway my point was we accept the risk every time we get in the car personally a risk over which we only have a certain amount of control, its a risk which is similar to the virus, we can take some precautions, but there is much that we cannot control.

Yes there have been over 30,000 deaths from the virus but again it is clear who is most at risk, the average healthy person is no more at risk of injury/death from Covid-19 than driving a car.

The other risks which result in deaths that a large proportion of the population seem to ignore very day, are diet, smoking, air pollution, drugs, air travel, sports the list is endless - the information about diet is out there, yet we have a large proportion of the population who die earlier than expected due to poor diet, strokes, heart attacks, amputations etc etc.

You mention 250,000 cases, (in a population of £63 million I'm sure you can work out the percentages, the majority have had no ill effects, do a little research on other health issues that have devastating effects on people that occur very day all year every year, the numbers will astound you.

Lastly the excess deaths, are due to other health issues that have not been treated, diagnosed etc. due to the health service being overwhelmed , services not being available, again these are heavily weighted towards older people, BUT mental health issues strokes, cancer, have not been picked up or the people involved are not going to the DR/hospital either through fear of catching Covid-19 or just not being able to access the service. These deaths will rise and will undoubtedly outstrip deaths from Covid-19. Whats more there will be a long term impact affecting people for years.

I suspect the Government hasn't got the bottle to enforce a return to school, ironically as its the least risky option, but most people will have to get back to work alongside those who have had no choice but to work through anyway.

I really couldn’t say, Swale, but to describe cars as ‘mobile bombs’ seems to be somewhat of an exaggeration to me.

You really can not compare risks when one leads to an average of 1800 deaths per year and the other leads to 36,000 (not ‘over 30k’) deaths in two and a half months.

Yes 250,000 is a very small % of 67 million, but it’s artificially small precisely because of the steps we’ve been taking, and I’ve never disputed the existence of the other conditions you rightly speak of but I very much doubt they’ve led to 36,000 deaths since March.

The government almost certainly hasn’t got the ‘bottle’ as you put it, because it knows that to restart compulsory attendance at school would be both very unpopular and impossible to implement.

I’d be much happier if it, and the three odd amigos on here, would recognise that a return to school should be done gradually on a region by region basis as part of an effort not to compromise the ‘R’ which is only where it is, between 0.7 - 1.0, because of the restrictions of the last couple of months.

[Geoff Parkstone]

and finally:

"If you want the latter (CHILDMINDNG) you’d better have mighty deep pockets because an average sized class of 27 - or even the new 15 - is going to cost a great deal more in terms of child minding than teaching."

Im lost here, why would it cost anything. Teachers are already being paid over the summer - and no, Im not going down the "to sit on their arses in the sun" route, but I cannot help but feel that some of the preparatory and planning work undertaken in these months could be waived/modified in this once in 200 year event. this is what I mean by flexibility.

You have already said that maybe half of the parents would not want to send their children to school. That therefore solves your class size / room size / social distancing problem.

So why the deep pockets, or will teachers want "double bubble"

[Geoff Parkstone]

"I’d be much happier if it, and the three odd amigos on here, would recognise that a return to school should be done gradually on a region by region basis as part of an effort not to compromise the ‘R’ which is only where it is, between 0.7 - 1.0, because of the restrictions of the last couple of months."

I have postulated this exact same thing in my last couple of comments, accompanied by extending the summer terms appropriately to achieve a staggered return to school, whilst leaving a few weeks for teachers to have a break and recharge before a difficulat academic year 20-21 to follow.

But your response bore the hallmarks of "show us yer money", despite already being paid once already. I'm just glad that our NHS staff showed more "bottle" and got on with what needed doing on an altruistic basis in far more risky environments. I have to say that the old woodwork teacher in me would have been ashamed.

[Ram59]

Yes that's true at the moment. Interesting Italy and Spain two of the worst affected counties have shut theirs till Sept7th I see our government have decided to let each school decide . Let them take the blame if it all goes wrong

From a practical view, this has to be the case. Different schools have different conditions, my children's and mine old school was massive in every way for a primary school. The classrooms are very big and could comfortably accommodate 15 socially distanced pupils and also has plenty of other classrooms to allow for smaller numbers.

Not all schools are in this position however and the individual schools will need to do their own risk assessments as to what is relatively safe, just like they do for all school trips.

[ramAnag]

From a practical view, this has to be the case. Different schools have different conditions, my children's and mine old school was massive in every way for a primary school. The classrooms are very big and could comfortably accommodate 15 socially distanced pupils and also has plenty of other classrooms to allow for smaller numbers.

Not all schools are in this position however and the individual schools will need to do their own risk assessments as to what is relatively safe, just like they do for all school trips.

Couldn’t agree more.

[ramAnag]

"I’d be much happier if it, and the three odd amigos on here, would recognise that a return to school should be done gradually on a region by region basis as part of an effort not to compromise the ‘R’ which is only where it is, between 0.7 - 1.0, because of the restrictions of the last couple of months."

I have postulated this exact same thing in my last couple of comments, accompanied by extending the summer terms appropriately to achieve a staggered return to school, whilst leaving a few weeks for teachers to have a break and recharge before a difficulat academic year 20-21 to follow.

But your response bore the hallmarks of "show us yer money", despite already being paid once already. I'm just glad that our NHS staff showed more "bottle" and got on with what needed doing on an altruistic basis in far more risky environments. I have to say that the old woodwork teacher in me would have been ashamed.

Firstly...if you read back you’ve begrudgingly come round to the region by region aspect that I initially advocated.

As regards the ‘show us yer money’ comment. Yet again you’ve deliberately misinterpreted my comment.

The serious part of my response was...teachers have been working...parents are not going to all send their children to school...teachers and families may be going on holiday (probably not abroad)...such conditions are not conducive to teaching or class learning.

The less serious part was...in my final year of teaching...admittedly a decade ago...I spent half the year as Acting Head and half the year as Deputy Head. Even then my salary only just reached £50k.

Now I’m going to do some sums...your favourite, my nightmare.
The average hourly rate for a child minder in this country is, I believe, £6.90.
The average class size in this country is 27.
Children are usually in school for between 6-7 hours.
£6.90 x 27 x 6.5 = £1210,95 per class per day or £6054.75 per week.
Over 39 term time weeks that would cost £236,135.25 per class of 27 per academic year.
Now I can’t be specific, but I do remember from my school management days of ‘splitting the budget’, that a very high percentage is spent on salaries.
So if the ‘child minding’ cost equivalent would be as above and my salary for heading up the whole shabang was a fraction of that, then you can see where I’m going...and no...I’m not complaining, don’t feel hard done by, am not making a point about downtrodden teachers or saying ‘show us yer money’. I’m just providing a little food for thought and suggesting you might be a little more appreciative of people who possibly contribute more than you might think to the well being of society.

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky not sure that's fact I've just looked it up The average UK age do Covid deaths is 59yrs4mts that surprised me So must have been a lot of much younger deaths and I can't imagine younger people being in care homes

Don't think you are correct. Wherever you got that from.
From the office of National statistics-

The rate of death due to COVID-19 increased significantly in each age group, starting from age 55 to 59 years in males and age 65 to 69 years in females; overall, one in five deaths were in age group 80 to 84 years.

[Ram59]

I think you're both right, I've seen that the average age is around 60 on more than one occasion, yet you look the individual age groups and it appears much higher.

[Trickytreesreds]

Would he be better off in Norfolk than Surrey? Hard to say, he might be more exposed to the virus by his behaviour if he was with his mates and socialising more, but he has plenty of mates at home here and isnt exposing himself.

I certainly hope he isn't exposing himself. Don't you lot have enough shame, fiddling sheep?

[Trickytreesreds]

In the context of "show me the money", here's two family differences.

My cousins husband, works in a bread factory. As such, he has had to carry on working and played the key worker card a lot.
He read that France was giving its all its key workers a £1500 bonus( not true fully, it was for those on the front line and working excessive hours). As such he has been ranting and raving that the Tories have robbed him and we treat our workers like ****.

Key relative number 2. My sisters husband at RR.
Been furloughed, now knows 9000 workers to go and is crapping himself how he's going to pay the bills.
He's willing to go back for a massive pay cut.

It seems all this "we all need to come together " spirit, is in the eye of the beholder and about as dog eat dog as you can get.
Economy and jobs? Nah, what's in it for me seems to be shining through in some quarters.