Get prepared for when football returns - Stock up on PPE now!
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Thread: OT. Schools...normality and Coronavirus.

  1. #231
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    16,169
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Sorry Swale...paragraph by paragraph.
    Why ‘zero knowledge’?
    Denmark hasn’t had an outbreak of Coronavirus anything like as bad as ours.
    Region by region because, for example, the situation in Cornwall or even much of London is now much less serious that that in the North East or Merseyside. What works for Cornwall may have serious consequences in Middlesbrough. It’s really not rocket science.

    The schools are not ‘wailing’ they are pointing out the dangers and the Unions are doing what they should be doing.

    The Unions aren’t playing on parents’ fears at all. Those fears have been established by the 36000 deaths and a quarter of a million cases.

    I don’t think for one minute that we are all at risk of dying from Covid-19. I do however think the R# has been kept artificially low by the lockdown and I don’t think we should relax the measures everywhere too soon. It runs the risk of being counterproductive.

    Of course you are anxious to see a return to normality. We all are, but you have banged on about it relentlessly and you said weeks ago that the impact of the virus on the economic situation was likely to have a bigger effect on you than the illness itself. That’s not a criticism btw, I understand your fears, but at least be honest.

    ‘The virus is going to be around for a long time and we won’t have a vaccine’. How do you know that? Have you suddenly acquired a new level of scientific knowledge...are you suddenly an expert in virology? No...you’re hypothesising, just as you are about children not being ‘spreaders’. You may be right...or there again...by which time it’ll be too late.

    I don’t believe the current situation can be maintained indefinitely. Neither do I know anyone who does. I simply believe that we have to proceed with caution and learn from the experiences of others. Your opinion is just as valid as mine or the NAS/UWT, NAHT, BMA, etc, but the fact that you see the situation differently doesn’t make you right.
    OMG! Right, lets deal with the vaccine - you know what I mean, IF and its big IF we get a vaccine(we don't for instance have a flu vaccine that covers every strain) its availability is according to all reports is going to be around 12 -18 months, what do you suggest in the meantime? Well the scientific view is that the virus is here to stay and is mutating quickly but hey maybe your right and these experts are wrong?

    I'm not ****ing anxious to see a return to normality, not for myself, lock down or as it is now partial lock down hardly affects my way of life, certainly I could happily live with it for many months, but my future my income does not depend upon getting the economy working.

    I'm not ****ing hypothesising about anything - I'm basing my comments on available evidence, I did try and point you towards this - the few children that have actually been infected, or suffered death. The fact that schools were open up until the lock down and yet there have been no reports of mass infections among teachers, the fact that even among those workers who are in contact with people infected with Covid-19 EVERY day have not suffered a high percentage of deaths/infections, the fact that thousands of shop workers, transport workers police etc, who are dealing with hundreds of strangers every day without full PPE, in fact without even masks or gloves in many cases are not dying or have very high rates of infection, should tell you something, if that is your able to assess risk.

    I get it though, you have no experience of managing risks, you will of course refute this, but your approach and posts clearly demonstrate that you are ultra cautious and yet are happy to take other risks (no sorry you don't think they are risks,) which again demonstrates that your risk awareness like many peoples is very low and so worry about the obvious unlikely to happen to you risk and blithely ignore or are unaware of the real risks that face you everyday.

    You keep banging on about R, as if it actually means anything - in point of fact Sweden which hasn't had a lock down has a very low R rate, so what does that mean?

    R is an average, so it takes no account of actual rate of infections in a region, town or even an individual workplace, so there is a significant body of scientific opinion that says the government is wrong to base its strategy on keeping R below 1, because its meaningless.

    Therefore regional wont work, its not what South Korea did, they tracked and tested cases in very precise localities, that could be a workplace, a care home a town depending upon what happens. Again they didn't lock down the whole country, they practiced testing, tracing (with a very effective app) and quarantine of those infected, everyone else gets on with their lives.

    Your opinion is based on a lack of understanding of the risk, a lack of understanding of what is required to protect - for instance gloves - thats not my view its what the majority of scientists are saying - though its bloody obvious if you read about it- if you wash your hands regularly and don't put them near yours or other mouths noses or eyes then even if by some remote chance you pick up the virus you won't be infected. Practically the only way you will get the virus is if someone infected coughs, spits etc. at your face. Thats a fact not my opinion.

    Speaking as someone who has a member of his household who has worked throughout the lock down, dealing with hundreds of different people on a daily basis plus work colleagues and who wears neither mask nor gloves but has practiced strict hygiene and social distancing (though thats not always possible), either they are incredibly lucky ( though none of the other employees have gone sick) or this likelihood of contracting the virus is slim, or they have had it and its been asymptomatic.

    How naive do you have to be to not understand that the unions are playing games? They have a card and are using it, it makes them look good to their members whether they believe what they are saying is another matter, thats always been the case with unions or any other similar organisations. Its small p political posturing, otherwise they would just get on and agree with local authorities the measures needed for a safe return of schools.

    One thing you and I do agree on is the reduced status of teachers, they should be held in higher regard, unfortunately thats down to the unions as well - if they had actually promoted teaching as profession and agreed higher standards for teachers with those that don't meet them being removed in a similar way to the GMC for Dr's for example, they would have a higher status, higher pay etc.

    As for what the ****ing Government are saying, well again most of it is big P political posturing, with all of them worrying more about their careers and chances of reelection than actually having a workable strategy that manages life during the pandemic.

    Anyway, I can tell that your not convinced so basically can't be arsed anymore, but maybe it would be worth you reading about the assessment of risks, you might just learn a thing or two. I'm not by the way referring to what ever risk assessment course you undertook as a teacher.

  2. #232
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    16,169
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Putting some factual flesh on the bones of what will be happening...I’ve just had a lengthy conversation with a Y6 teacher who will be returning to school on June 1st.
    She’s pleased to be doing so as it’s the beginning of a ‘return to normality’.
    Their are just under sixty Y6 pupils in the school and all the families were contacted last week to advise of their intentions re attendance.
    To date just six have answered...yes, definitely.
    13 have said...no, thanks...a number of whom are Asian and have elderly vulnerable relatives in the household.
    The rest, helpfully, haven’t answered yet.
    Despite Swales’ obviously well researched reassurances, the teachers will be equipped with a full face visor each and masks will be available for pupils to wear.
    There are two Y6 teachers and while one is teaching those pupils who are present, the other will be providing an online teaching facility for the absentees for which money has been made available to facilitate.

    Interesting times!
    Oh love the sarcasm! But hey read the plethora of medical advice on how the virus is transmitted, the infection rate among children etc etc. Not my views or opinion, its the evidence thats available, but I understand that your concerned about a risk that "might be there" its just a shame youand a great many other people ignore the real ones that are there everyday, because tens of thousands of people would not be badly injured or suffer death very year!

    You obviously didn't read the bit where I said many of the steps taken re PPE are more about reassurance than the actual effectiveness of the action! Oh and of course corporate back covering, as should something occur, which wasn't necessarily connected to the lack of PPE or protective measures but it will be claimed that it was.

    If I had a £1 for every measure or action regarding a risk that I've had to take to either look as if I'm doing something or to cover my back legally, even though in actual fact either the risk was non existent or so unlikely to happen that the measures taken were not really required I would be a millionaire.

    And if I had another £1 for every time the people who had asked for these actions, then disregarded them or stopped using the PPE or whatever after a while, I'd make another half million! But thats human beings for you.

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