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Thread: OT. Schools...normality and Coronavirus.

  1. #251
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    Sep 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
    Well first I read about it and look at the statistics, we are panicking about something that is akin to flu and that kills many thousands of people every year. You actually seem to understand very little about the virus, so not sure how you can accurately assess the risk to teachers.
    Some of the symptoms are indeed flu like but that's where the camparison ends, really. The number of flu patients who end up in the ICU is small. Here in the Netherlands we had about 1900 COVID patients in ICU. Before COVID there were 950 ICU beds in the country and about 50% were in use at any one time. The excess was for eventual pandemics or other health crises...... they are looking at what the "standard excess" should be, going forward.

    Further, the average stay in the ICU was, pre COVID, 3 to 4 days. The vast majority of COVID patients are there 3 to4 weeks and some have been there longer.

    Doctors are learning more about the virus and its effects through their daily experience with it. They have learnt that CV-19 attacks the lungs leaving permanent damage......... FLU DOESN'T

    They have learnt that CV-19 causes thrombosis for about half of the CV-19 patients in the ICU and that leads to renal failure, heart problems, lung problems............... FLU DOESN'T

    So, although there are some similarities between Flu and CV-19, they are most definitely not the same.

  2. #252
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    Sep 2011
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    Possible first breakdown in Dutch discipline? Monday there was a protest planned in Dam Square, Amsterdam, against racism and police brutality sparked by the death of George Floyd. The organisers said they were expecting between 300 and 500 people to attend. When police and the mayor did an online check there were 1200 "registered as interested". It's well known that a huge % of those who indicate interest for an event don't turn up. The number rose through the afternoon to 2200. Still not an issue really as you could get that many on Dam Square with 3m spacing. In the end an estimated 5K turned out and maybe 20% to 30% weren't keeping to the 1.5m social distancing. 95% were wearing face masks. I hope we don't see a spike in 2 weeks time. More about the consequences later.

    There was a 2nd yesterday on the Maliveld in the Hague which was attended by another 4K. The Maliveld is huge, often has concerts with 40K so there was no spacing issue they say but the paths leading to it aren't massively wide...... again I hope there's no CV backlash.

    Another one planned for today in Rotterdam. That too is planned for a huge open space allowing proper distancing....... hopefully.

    The Mayor of Amsterdam has been criticised for not sending the police in once the numbers grew rapidly. She, in discussions with the Justice Minister decided a) as well as the CV rules there is the right to protest enshrined in Law b) the numbers were already way too large that sending the police in would lead to trouble c) they wouldn't send in the police although some police did start asking demonstrators politely if they wouldn't mind going home.........

    A top lawyer has come out and said that the actions by Mayor and Minister yesterday show randmoness in the application of the CV rules and that anybody who has been fined the €395 for breaking lockdown/social distancing rules now has a great argument to appeal and have their conviction quashed and the money refunded..... that's around 14000 people........

    Also, the same top lawyer said that if somebody gets CV and the source is tracked to the demonstration that they could sue the City and the government for failing in their duty to protect and win a shedload of money in the court case.

    Amsterdam council has called a special meeting for tomorrow evening in which the Mayor will have to defend her actions.......

  3. #253
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    4,651
    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    Some of the symptoms are indeed flu like but that's where the camparison ends, really. The number of flu patients who end up in the ICU is small. Here in the Netherlands we had about 1900 COVID patients in ICU. Before COVID there were 950 ICU beds in the country and about 50% were in use at any one time. The excess was for eventual pandemics or other health crises...... they are looking at what the "standard excess" should be, going forward.

    Further, the average stay in the ICU was, pre COVID, 3 to 4 days. The vast majority of COVID patients are there 3 to4 weeks and some have been there longer.

    Doctors are learning more about the virus and its effects through their daily experience with it. They have learnt that CV-19 attacks the lungs leaving permanent damage......... FLU DOESN'T

    They have learnt that CV-19 causes thrombosis for about half of the CV-19 patients in the ICU and that leads to renal failure, heart problems, lung problems............... FLU DOESN'T

    So, although there are some similarities between Flu and CV-19, they are most definitely not the same.
    Not often I disagree with Swales but MA you are spot on There maybe flu like symptoms to start with but that changes rapidly . Having had my niece in an induced coma at 15 . I know first hand how rapidly this virus can destroy you . Of course thousands have had it with hardly any problems Lots of scientists working on it maybe we will find some answers soon Just a foot note I've been in the Syrian government web site they are telling the inhabitants don't drink camel milk or camel urine

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistaram View Post
    Just a foot note I've been in the Syrian government web site they are telling the inhabitants don't drink camel milk or camel urine
    Didn't realise the had Carling over there!

    I don't think Swale is likening the virus to flu medically, but more it's impact on society.

  5. #255
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    May 2018
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    6,481
    Quote Originally Posted by mistaram View Post
    Not often I disagree with Swales but MA you are spot on There maybe flu like symptoms to start with but that changes rapidly . Having had my niece in an induced coma at 15 . I know first hand how rapidly this virus can destroy you . Of course thousands have had it with hardly any problems Lots of scientists working on it maybe we will find some answers soon Just a foot note I've been in the Syrian government web site they are telling the inhabitants don't drink camel milk or camel urine
    Oh bother, and here was me looking forward to a long cool draft of camel's piss tonight. It does, as Adi notes, taste far better than most lager. Most? No, all lager

  6. #256
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    Jan 2014
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    My local council is now erecting permanent type street signs on lamp posts saying keep 2m apart, just in time for it to be reduced.

    3 workers and a pick up, how I love to see my council tax wasted.

  7. #257
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    May 2018
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    How can they socially distance 3 people in a pick up?

  8. #258
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    Jun 2016
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    Just listening to Sir Simon Stevens - CEO of the NHS - on Marr.
    Why do we have to listen to politicians when there are people like him around?
    He understands and knows the answers.
    Made more sense in the last 15 minutes than Hancock, Johnson and Co. have in the last 15 weeks.

  9. #259
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    19,996
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Just listening to Sir Simon Stevens - CEO of the NHS - on Marr.
    Why do we have to listen to politicians when there are people like him around?
    He understands and knows the answers.
    Made more sense in the last 15 minutes than Hancock, Johnson and Co. have in the last 15 weeks.
    I don't think you HAVE to listen to politicians RA, its optional!

    Of course its difficult to manage competing issues, health and the reality of the impact on millions of people of a crashed economy, which is where a politician is supposed to provide the balance. Does Sir Simon Stevens know the answers? From a health perspective probably, but from a realistic approach which means the country can function completely? I doubt it, nobody knows all the answers!

    Nowhere is this more evident than New Zealand, which effectively quarantined itself from the rest of the world and has minimal deaths as a result, BUT they are now realising that their economy will go down the tubes and of course that will ahve a detrimental impact on the health and lives of its citizens.

  10. #260
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    20,612
    Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
    I don't think you HAVE to listen to politicians RA, its optional!

    Of course its difficult to manage competing issues, health and the reality of the impact on millions of people of a crashed economy, which is where a politician is supposed to provide the balance. Does Sir Simon Stevens know the answers? From a health perspective probably, but from a realistic approach which means the country can function completely? I doubt it, nobody knows all the answers!

    Nowhere is this more evident than New Zealand, which effectively quarantined itself from the rest of the world and has minimal deaths as a result, BUT they are now realising that their economy will go down the tubes and of course that will ahve a detrimental impact on the health and lives of its citizens.
    That is very well put Swle and my feelings.
    Same will apply to Scotland. Krankie has enforced this lock down more than anyone.
    She is already screaming for more money, as financially things crash around around her.

    She may look like she's adhering to "expert" advice. But she is a politician and has been doing the exact opposite of West Minster for her own reasons.
    There is no balance on what anyone thinks.

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