OT. Schools...normality and Coronavirus.

[MadAmster]

The police have already come out and said they won't be able to police it. That puts pressure on shop owners to police it.... not their job.

A mate of mine runs a pub in the centre of Derby. He worked out that, with the 1 m rule, he can get about 40 in at any one time. Once he gets the max in, the doors shut and, after that it's 1 out and 1 in. Everybody inside keeps to the rules.

I am not daft enough to think it's the same everywhere. Not everybody will run as tight a ship as Kirky.

[MadAmster]

NL. Last 19 days, only 1 day with more than 100 new cases (101). Several days with 0 deaths and the highest daily number of deaths was 6. 25 Covid cases still in ICU.

It looks under control but we all realise it aint gone away yet so we won't get carried away.

The UK? I, putting it mildly, have no time for the current shower in charge, collectively or individually. Too little, too late with just about every decision thus far. The one exception was the various packages for firms and furloughed staff. I sincerely hope they start getting the rest right in both content and timing. Starting today.

[Ram59]

On the timing, when you're making a legal requirement you have got to give people and establishments a reasonable time to implement such measures.

[ramAnag]

Don't be so bloody defensive and consider the points made as to why hesitancy and conflicting perspectives existed. Its not straight forward in any way, unless you adopt a one eyed response based on political allegiance, as you persistently do.

For once lets take political point scoring off the agenda and consider the practical issues surrounding the mask implementation: because they are central to any decision making process. You cannot just say "do it" with no way to enforce it, and that takes time to consider before coming to whatever decision is selected.

For the last couple of weeks I have been venturing into my local town to visit bank post office etc, some locations are inside a small mall. Wearing of masks might be at 5% take up, social distancing (be it 2m or 1m) rarely observed by kids racing around, almost never by the elderly who seem to view it as everyone elses job to get out of their way even when they are going the wrong way down" a one way street" in a shop. But masks were not mandatory.

Today I visited again, and indeed indulged in a socially distanced solitary coffee.There were a few more masks being worn but, again somewhat curiously, rarely by the elderly who surely are the most vulnerable. So what will it be like when people get used to having to wear them? When hopefully the shops are prepared to deal with the "wont wears" and so on.

Since lockdown I feel Johnson has been like Canute trying to convince the tide to reverse its flow. Given an inch a significant number of people have taken a mile, as you rA have observed yourself on Dorset beaches, in the Peak District, etc etc. With pubs reopening this lack of compliance has got worse with a new dimension.

Is it any surprise that the issue generated (and still does) conflicting opinion and wasnt just a slam dunk?

We will see what happens when what many will see as a backwards step against their freedoms comes into force. I genuinely dont know how compliant the people will be. Personally, the biggest reason I have against them lies in my glasses constantly steaming up, but I will seek to comply although Im not convinced its a practical enforceable decision. Same on trains........

On a more light hearted note, I saw some creativity today from that much loathed group - the smokers. One guy had cut a neat hole in his mask to enable him to hang a fag out of his mouth and thus satisfy his addiction. I am not convinced that the mask would really count as one if he went in a shop between fags, but, nice try.

Unsurprisingly there were still queues to get into many "institutions" - banks, coffee shops etc, but the biggest queue was for Paddy Power! So much for online gambling. The queue at the job centre was...... non existent, although it was open. Clearly its not as bad out there on the job front as I had thought.

By the same token...don’t be so bloody rude and aggressive!

When this thread began you answered reasonably and your first sentence was, ‘I wish I had an answer to that, but...’.
Now it’s ‘yawn’ and it’s just rA having another go at Johnson...as if there’s no case to answer.

Where have I ever suggested it’s straightforward? I totally accept that the situation is unprecedented but that doesn’t excuse incompetence and contradiction.

To have a very senior government minister (Gove) saying one thing on Sunday morning only to be completely contradicted by the actions of the Government by Monday night is not acceptable. Neither are the actions (and reaction to) Cummings’ rule breaking or Johnson’s own father breaking the rules to fly to his holiday home in Greece via Bulgaria to get around the rules.

Leadership has been poor...and the examples set by leaders, imo, appalling.

I too will seek to comply...but I suspect others would behave better if they were more convinced by the examples of our leaders and had more belief in the government’s advice being consistent and credible. Opening the shops and telling everyone to go shopping one week and then telling everyone they’re going to have to wear masks to go into a shop two weeks later is a chaotic and ill thought through method of making policy as I suspect you actually know.

It just typifies what has been going on...stay at home...but go to work...but not on public transport...unless you’re wearing a mask...but they won’t make any difference...until the 24th July when you’ll be fined if you don’t...but still go to the shops...where you will need a mask, but only in ten days time...and then have a safe summer...on the beaches...but not on the beaches...because you need to abide by the social distancing rules...until September when everyone will go back to school...where social distancing doesn’t matter anymore...although it still does in the theatre...or on a plane...(well some planes, not Stanley’s obviously)...or at Westminster...where lots of people are gathered together in confined spaces...but that’s not at all like schools...not even a little bit!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Its a shame that you weren't in charge from day one, then you'd have got it all bang on every time.

rA for prime minister, lets start the campaign now. Sadly there are no upcoming by-elections, covid hasn't got an MP yet

[ramAnag]

Its a shame that you weren't in charge from day one, then you'd have got it all bang on every time.

rA for prime minister, lets start the campaign now. Sadly there are no upcoming by-elections, covid hasn't got an MP yet

Lol...hysterical.

It’s not a question of getting it ‘bang on every time’...the point is this shower have screwed up more often than not...imo.

Maybe that’s all it is...just my opinion...but then this is a forum. It’s purpose is...to exchange opinions.

Perhaps in your opinion everything in the garden is rosy...the Government is managing things in a truly accomplished manner and there isn’t even the faintest whiff of hypocrisy. Perhaps if you explained your point properly, or even had one, and didn’t resort to sarcasm every time you’re challenged you’d make more sense.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I believe I explained my point both clearly and lucidly when explaining the difficulties faced by the police and the retailers in applying the rules, and the time it will take for the necessary safeguards to be put into place. if you chose to disregard them, that's not my problem.

I'm not so naive as to suggest the garden is rosy, but sure as hell don't believes its covered with blight, weeds and slugs as you seem to. So where is that huge surge in death rate amongst the hard put upon teachers who had to return to work then? More bloody accountants died by all accounts . or maybe they just all lived in Leicester?

[ramAnag]

I believe I explained my point both clearly and lucidly when explaining the difficulties faced by the police and the retailers in applying the rules, and the time it will take for the necessary safeguards to be put into place. if you chose to disregard them, that's not my problem.

I'm not so naive as to suggest the garden is rosy, but sure as hell don't believes its covered with blight, weeds and slugs as you seem to. So where is that huge surge in death rate amongst the hard put upon teachers who had to return to work then? More bloody accountants died by all accounts . or maybe they just all lived in Leicester?

I’m not talking about the police and retailers...I’m talking about the management (or mismanagement) of this crisis by the Government.

Neither have I a clue about how many accountants or teachers have died, but yet again you choose to miss the point and change the goalposts.

My point about schools isn’t, first and foremost, about how many teachers - and other adults - ‘die’, although that of course is an issue that shouldn’t be belittled.

The point is...the extent to which a full return to school might lead to a second wave of Covid.

Contrary to your suggestion I don’t believe I have all the answers, least of all about the financial implications or how we recover (financially again) from the cost and losses of the last five months.

I do however believe that I’m at least as well qualified to comment on education as Gavin Williamson appears to be and I’ll have a little wager with you.

If steps are not taken very quickly indeed, then in less than two months time we will find that despite all the threats and filibustering from Messrs. Williamson and Johnson we are in exactly the same situation where parents are unwilling to send their children to school and a proportion of teachers are unwilling to work in them.

The reason? Because as long as social distancing rules are deemed necessary in other indoor situations where people normally gather in large groups...theatres, surgeries, shopping centres, offices, Parliament, concert halls, universities etc, then it makes absolutely no sense to treat schools differently.

If you don’t agree with that please tell me why. Otherwise the current scenario will remain unchanged and the only way round the problem that I can see is the provision of alternative (probably temporary) buildings staffed perhaps by otherwise only partially employed supply teachers...but that would involve doing something other than just blaming parents and teachers.

[Trickytreesreds]

If, GP and TTR, you think that’s all just me indulging in ‘Boris bashing’ then so be it...personally I think it’s a perfectly valid question and one aimed at us receiving some consistent and competent leadership instead of the series of clueless contradictions we’re currently having to endure.

RA, you're right to have a moan. No one stopping you.
He/they are in the driving seat and so the driver gets the flak.

But is it the disaster you seem to be portraying?
Sure there are folks not happy like yourself. But if it was really this ****e, they would be getting slaughtered in public opinion?

Yougov latest pol

The latest YouGov poll has the Conservatives with a 10-point lead over the Labour Party.

The survey has the Tories on 46 percent with Labour trailing on 36 percent.

The Liberal Democrats have 6 percent of the vote, the Greens have 3 percent and the Brexit Party are polling on two percent.


The problem you've got, is that the majority are still waiting for a credible alternative to mop head.

[ramAnag]

RA, you're right to have a moan. No one stopping you.
He/they are in the driving seat and so the driver gets the flak.

But is it the disaster you seem to be portraying?
Sure there are folks not happy like yourself. But if it was really this ****e, they would be getting slaughtered in public opinion?

Yougov latest pol

The latest YouGov poll has the Conservatives with a 10-point lead over the Labour Party.

The survey has the Tories on 46 percent with Labour trailing on 36 percent.

The Liberal Democrats have 6 percent of the vote, the Greens have 3 percent and the Brexit Party are polling on two percent.


The problem you've got, is that the majority are still waiting for a credible alternative to mop head.

There are all sorts of polls reaching all sorts of different conclusions, Tricky. I don’t take much notice of them.

As regards the ‘problem I’ve got’...I think it’s the same as the problem we all have at the moment...a country in crisis led by an incompetent and unprincipled government which, due to the endless U turns, is increasingly lacking in credibility.