O/T:- Should he stay or should he go? WARNING - POLITICAL THREAD!!!!

[magpie_mania]

... so weak Snhd 1, if you stay 2m apart and meet no one there is no problem. You lefties don't seem/want to get that. The stay at home guideline is for those without the self discipline to keep 2m apart. You seem to have forgotten that it has always been ok to go to work where it's possible to keep apart. What is the matter with you ...

Did you watch any of the Govt updates, or read the letter sent to every home? 'You must stay at home' and 'Work from home if possible'.

Can't remember any time they added 'Unless you have self-discipline'

[drillerpie]

Did you watch any of the Govt updates, or read the letter sent to every home? 'You must stay at home' and 'Work from home if possible'.

Can't remember any time they added 'Unless you have self-discipline'

I can't remember Machiavelli ever being compared to Vinnie Jones either!

[TheBlackHorse]

... it's just that some on here might struggle with Machiavelli whereas, since this is a football site, the VJ reference might have more meaning for those who understand the more subversive requirements that go on both in football, politics (not least when dealing with our Euro jackals - sorry, friends).

[countygump]

Tho I fully understand their reasons for being there, these people seemed to have a prob with the 2 metre rule as well. A few will unfortunately contract Covid no doubt and possibly pass it on to their friends and family. No doubt the Gov will then get the blame, seems to be the way of it. Mr Hindsight is in full time employment and Mr Common Sense seems to have been furloughed these days.

[TheBlackHorse]

... a few thoughts by someone who I would not inflict with some on this site ...

I hear SO many people constantly moaning so here's my thoughts. And just to be clear I didn't actually vote for Boris Johnson.
I feel like if he'd have locked down sooner people would have moaned saying he panicked and caused a longer lockdown than was necessary.
I feel like if he'd locked down later people would have moaned saying he should have locked down sooner.
If he ends the lockdown soon people will moan saying he's putting people's lives at risk.
If he keeps the lockdown going people will moan saying he's wrecking the economy, the long term results of which will be worse than that of the virus (for example the vast number of lives lost during the Great Depression).
If he keeps the schools closed people will moan saying children are being denied their right to education and people can't go back to work until the schools open.
If he opens the schools people will moan saying it's not safe for children and teachers to go back.
They managed to get a furlough scheme going in next to no time - 80% of your wages covered for sitting at home, so that companies didn't have to get rid of staff. People moan that it's not enough. Then you get rich companies / people around the world using it as a money saving exercise rather than a last resort to making someone redundant.
People say our lockdown was too draconian and a waste of time and to look at Sweden who didn't implement a lockdown. Yet people also say our lockdown was too weak and to look at China who were literally spraying the streets with disinfectant and no-one could leave their house.
People demanded an exit plan, so he gives an exit plan. So people moan and say it's mixed messages and should have been released before the bank holiday.
He says he's following scientific advice, people dismiss the scientific advice saying it's rubbish.
He says you can now have unlimited exercise as he appreciates how important it is for mental and physical well being, yet people moan saying they can now exercise but can't see their family.
He's encouraged outdoor workers (construction, labouring etc) to go back to work as it's a lot easier to maintain social distancing outside of an office. People moan saying that's unfair. He's encouraged people to not use public transport unless they need to. People moan saying that's unfair.
I feel like if he'd quarantined everyone coming into the country people would have moaned saying it was against their basic human rights. Yet now he's saying all new arrivals will be made to quarantine, the airlines are moaning saying it will destroy their industry.
I feel like one minute an 'expert' is coming out saying the lockdown is a complete waste of time and the next minute another 'expert' is coming out saying without a lockdown it would have resulted in five hundred thousand deaths.
I feel like people talk about setting up and supplying PPE, Track & Trace and swab tests for millions, like it's as quick and easy as a stroll down the shops, without appreciating what a logistical nightmare it must actually be.
I feel like the unions and people will demand a safer environment (and so they should) and refuse to go back to work, but will also moan and cry about taxes going up as a result of the government having had to foot the bill for them being out of work for months.
I feel like people will happily point out we have one of the worst death counts in Europe but will fail to mention we are also one of the most densely populated. That people will happily pin every single death here on the government, as if this new horrific virus hasn't caused hundreds of thousands of deaths worldwide.
I feel like people in this country JUST LOVE TO MOAN. And if Boris Johnson magicked a vaccine out of thin air tonight, people would start moaning about the weather saying that was his fault instead.
I feel like people forget the government are human beings. They are doing the best they can guided by the best scientific advice in this country. Better advice than Piers Morgan or some cheap journalist.
I feel like the real villains are the immoral media who are full of lies, deceit and hidden agendas. The multi millionaires and rich companies who use the furlough scheme as a money saving exercise rather than leaving it for the companies that actually NEED IT. The people that never pay a penny of tax or national insurance yet rinse the state for all it's worth. Not forgetting the persons responsible for this deadly virus actually getting unleashed on mankind. They are the true villains, yet it's all too easy to blame the government.
I feel like whatever he does he CANNOT WIN.
Before people start replying with stats and 'how much worse it's been handled over here' - let me show you how easy it is to present stats to fit a certain narrative:
USA - tens of millions of people unemployed, no free healthcare, high number of deaths.
Italy - healthcare system completely overwhelmed, doctors forced to choose between who lives and dies. Similar number of deaths to the UK.
Spain - Population 30% smaller than the UK, with a death count 15% higher per million population, yet similar number of deaths.
France - Roughly same size population as the UK, on a landmass nearly 3 times bigger, yet similar number of deaths.
But, if you're still hell bent on making comparisons then surely it makes sense to make them against countries on a similar footing to our own, not countries on the other side of the world who are operating under completely different circumstances!
With regards the media - how many times has a government adviser announced a new bit of guidance, and how many times do one of the newspapers miraculously find a random 'expert' who just so happens to have the complete opposite opinion...
And the next time you watch one of the 5pm government briefings, listen closely to the questions the media ask and think to yourself how many of them are actually relevant / good solid questions and how many of them are designed with the sole purpose of tripping up those they are asking...
For me, I'm afraid large parts of the media have become glorified gossip outlets with a plethora of could, if's and maybe's, when what we as a nation need during this difficult time is factual real time information.
One final thought (if you've made it this far without falling asleep I salute you ��):
Every single death is a huge tragedy, and I don't believe many people will be better off as a result of this virus. Our NHS, our care workers and our emergency services do an unbelievable job, they are hands down one of the best things about this country. Let's not forget though, that the world is battling to hold this virus at bay, and these problems we face aren't just happening in the UK, as our media will have you believe.
*******
P.S No I am not a 'bot' (whatever that means), no I didn't steal this from elsewhere and no I definitely am not writing on behalf of the conservative government. I have a wife, a dog, a job, I love playing & watching numerous sports, I am just a normal working class 30 yr old man

[LaxtonLad]

"With regards the media - how many times has a government adviser announced a new bit of guidance, and how many times do one of the newspapers miraculously find a random 'expert' who just so happens to have the complete opposite opinion..."

Not so much the TV but the newspapers seem to vie with each other for their own paid "experts" giving their latest hopeful "facts" only to print the opposite latest depressing "information" from someone else a few days later.

[TheBlackHorse]

... it's as it has always been. Pay the piper and he'll play whatever tune you want. Scientists, doctors ... integrity ... don't make me laugh. You don't find these 'experts' working IN the NHS that trained them; they're too busy milking the cow that gives ...

[BigFatPie]

... a few thoughts by someone who I would not inflict with some on this site ...

I hear SO many people constantly moaning so here's my thoughts. And just to be clear I didn't actually vote for Boris Johnson.
I feel like if he'd have locked down sooner people would have moaned saying he panicked and caused a longer lockdown than was necessary.
I feel like if he'd locked down later people would have moaned saying he should have locked down sooner.
If he ends the lockdown soon people will moan saying he's putting people's lives at risk.
If he keeps the lockdown going people will moan saying he's wrecking the economy, the long term results of which will be worse than that of the virus (for example the vast number of lives lost during the Great Depression).
If he keeps the schools closed people will moan saying children are being denied their right to education and people can't go back to work until the schools open.
If he opens the schools people will moan saying it's not safe for children and teachers to go back.
They managed to get a furlough scheme going in next to no time - 80% of your wages covered for sitting at home, so that companies didn't have to get rid of staff. People moan that it's not enough. Then you get rich companies / people around the world using it as a money saving exercise rather than a last resort to making someone redundant.
People say our lockdown was too draconian and a waste of time and to look at Sweden who didn't implement a lockdown. Yet people also say our lockdown was too weak and to look at China who were literally spraying the streets with disinfectant and no-one could leave their house.
People demanded an exit plan, so he gives an exit plan. So people moan and say it's mixed messages and should have been released before the bank holiday.
He says he's following scientific advice, people dismiss the scientific advice saying it's rubbish.
He says you can now have unlimited exercise as he appreciates how important it is for mental and physical well being, yet people moan saying they can now exercise but can't see their family.
He's encouraged outdoor workers (construction, labouring etc) to go back to work as it's a lot easier to maintain social distancing outside of an office. People moan saying that's unfair. He's encouraged people to not use public transport unless they need to. People moan saying that's unfair.
I feel like if he'd quarantined everyone coming into the country people would have moaned saying it was against their basic human rights. Yet now he's saying all new arrivals will be made to quarantine, the airlines are moaning saying it will destroy their industry.
I feel like one minute an 'expert' is coming out saying the lockdown is a complete waste of time and the next minute another 'expert' is coming out saying without a lockdown it would have resulted in five hundred thousand deaths.
I feel like people talk about setting up and supplying PPE, Track & Trace and swab tests for millions, like it's as quick and easy as a stroll down the shops, without appreciating what a logistical nightmare it must actually be.
I feel like the unions and people will demand a safer environment (and so they should) and refuse to go back to work, but will also moan and cry about taxes going up as a result of the government having had to foot the bill for them being out of work for months.
I feel like people will happily point out we have one of the worst death counts in Europe but will fail to mention we are also one of the most densely populated. That people will happily pin every single death here on the government, as if this new horrific virus hasn't caused hundreds of thousands of deaths worldwide.
I feel like people in this country JUST LOVE TO MOAN. And if Boris Johnson magicked a vaccine out of thin air tonight, people would start moaning about the weather saying that was his fault instead.
I feel like people forget the government are human beings. They are doing the best they can guided by the best scientific advice in this country. Better advice than Piers Morgan or some cheap journalist.
I feel like the real villains are the immoral media who are full of lies, deceit and hidden agendas. The multi millionaires and rich companies who use the furlough scheme as a money saving exercise rather than leaving it for the companies that actually NEED IT. The people that never pay a penny of tax or national insurance yet rinse the state for all it's worth. Not forgetting the persons responsible for this deadly virus actually getting unleashed on mankind. They are the true villains, yet it's all too easy to blame the government.
I feel like whatever he does he CANNOT WIN.
Before people start replying with stats and 'how much worse it's been handled over here' - let me show you how easy it is to present stats to fit a certain narrative:
USA - tens of millions of people unemployed, no free healthcare, high number of deaths.
Italy - healthcare system completely overwhelmed, doctors forced to choose between who lives and dies. Similar number of deaths to the UK.
Spain - Population 30% smaller than the UK, with a death count 15% higher per million population, yet similar number of deaths.
France - Roughly same size population as the UK, on a landmass nearly 3 times bigger, yet similar number of deaths.
But, if you're still hell bent on making comparisons then surely it makes sense to make them against countries on a similar footing to our own, not countries on the other side of the world who are operating under completely different circumstances!
With regards the media - how many times has a government adviser announced a new bit of guidance, and how many times do one of the newspapers miraculously find a random 'expert' who just so happens to have the complete opposite opinion...
And the next time you watch one of the 5pm government briefings, listen closely to the questions the media ask and think to yourself how many of them are actually relevant / good solid questions and how many of them are designed with the sole purpose of tripping up those they are asking...
For me, I'm afraid large parts of the media have become glorified gossip outlets with a plethora of could, if's and maybe's, when what we as a nation need during this difficult time is factual real time information.
One final thought (if you've made it this far without falling asleep I salute you ��):
Every single death is a huge tragedy, and I don't believe many people will be better off as a result of this virus. Our NHS, our care workers and our emergency services do an unbelievable job, they are hands down one of the best things about this country. Let's not forget though, that the world is battling to hold this virus at bay, and these problems we face aren't just happening in the UK, as our media will have you believe.
*******
P.S No I am not a 'bot' (whatever that means), no I didn't steal this from elsewhere and no I definitely am not writing on behalf of the conservative government. I have a wife, a dog, a job, I love playing & watching numerous sports, I am just a normal working class 30 yr old man

If all that wasn’t really written by a 5 year old in crayon, I’d be very disappointed. A fairly simple 5 year old at that.

[Disturbed]

... a few thoughts by someone who I would not inflict with some on this site ...

I hear SO many people constantly moaning so here's my thoughts. And just to be clear I didn't actually vote for Boris Johnson.
I feel like if he'd have locked down sooner people would have moaned saying he panicked and caused a longer lockdown than was necessary.
I feel like if he'd locked down later people would have moaned saying he should have locked down sooner.
If he ends the lockdown soon people will moan saying he's putting people's lives at risk.
If he keeps the lockdown going people will moan saying he's wrecking the economy, the long term results of which will be worse than that of the virus (for example the vast number of lives lost during the Great Depression).
If he keeps the schools closed people will moan saying children are being denied their right to education and people can't go back to work until the schools open.
If he opens the schools people will moan saying it's not safe for children and teachers to go back.
They managed to get a furlough scheme going in next to no time - 80% of your wages covered for sitting at home, so that companies didn't have to get rid of staff. People moan that it's not enough. Then you get rich companies / people around the world using it as a money saving exercise rather than a last resort to making someone redundant.
People say our lockdown was too draconian and a waste of time and to look at Sweden who didn't implement a lockdown. Yet people also say our lockdown was too weak and to look at China who were literally spraying the streets with disinfectant and no-one could leave their house.
People demanded an exit plan, so he gives an exit plan. So people moan and say it's mixed messages and should have been released before the bank holiday.
He says he's following scientific advice, people dismiss the scientific advice saying it's rubbish.
He says you can now have unlimited exercise as he appreciates how important it is for mental and physical well being, yet people moan saying they can now exercise but can't see their family.
He's encouraged outdoor workers (construction, labouring etc) to go back to work as it's a lot easier to maintain social distancing outside of an office. People moan saying that's unfair. He's encouraged people to not use public transport unless they need to. People moan saying that's unfair.
I feel like if he'd quarantined everyone coming into the country people would have moaned saying it was against their basic human rights. Yet now he's saying all new arrivals will be made to quarantine, the airlines are moaning saying it will destroy their industry.
I feel like one minute an 'expert' is coming out saying the lockdown is a complete waste of time and the next minute another 'expert' is coming out saying without a lockdown it would have resulted in five hundred thousand deaths.
I feel like people talk about setting up and supplying PPE, Track & Trace and swab tests for millions, like it's as quick and easy as a stroll down the shops, without appreciating what a logistical nightmare it must actually be.
I feel like the unions and people will demand a safer environment (and so they should) and refuse to go back to work, but will also moan and cry about taxes going up as a result of the government having had to foot the bill for them being out of work for months.
I feel like people will happily point out we have one of the worst death counts in Europe but will fail to mention we are also one of the most densely populated. That people will happily pin every single death here on the government, as if this new horrific virus hasn't caused hundreds of thousands of deaths worldwide.
I feel like people in this country JUST LOVE TO MOAN. And if Boris Johnson magicked a vaccine out of thin air tonight, people would start moaning about the weather saying that was his fault instead.
I feel like people forget the government are human beings. They are doing the best they can guided by the best scientific advice in this country. Better advice than Piers Morgan or some cheap journalist.
I feel like the real villains are the immoral media who are full of lies, deceit and hidden agendas. The multi millionaires and rich companies who use the furlough scheme as a money saving exercise rather than leaving it for the companies that actually NEED IT. The people that never pay a penny of tax or national insurance yet rinse the state for all it's worth. Not forgetting the persons responsible for this deadly virus actually getting unleashed on mankind. They are the true villains, yet it's all too easy to blame the government.
I feel like whatever he does he CANNOT WIN.
Before people start replying with stats and 'how much worse it's been handled over here' - let me show you how easy it is to present stats to fit a certain narrative:
USA - tens of millions of people unemployed, no free healthcare, high number of deaths.
Italy - healthcare system completely overwhelmed, doctors forced to choose between who lives and dies. Similar number of deaths to the UK.
Spain - Population 30% smaller than the UK, with a death count 15% higher per million population, yet similar number of deaths.
France - Roughly same size population as the UK, on a landmass nearly 3 times bigger, yet similar number of deaths.
But, if you're still hell bent on making comparisons then surely it makes sense to make them against countries on a similar footing to our own, not countries on the other side of the world who are operating under completely different circumstances!
With regards the media - how many times has a government adviser announced a new bit of guidance, and how many times do one of the newspapers miraculously find a random 'expert' who just so happens to have the complete opposite opinion...
And the next time you watch one of the 5pm government briefings, listen closely to the questions the media ask and think to yourself how many of them are actually relevant / good solid questions and how many of them are designed with the sole purpose of tripping up those they are asking...
For me, I'm afraid large parts of the media have become glorified gossip outlets with a plethora of could, if's and maybe's, when what we as a nation need during this difficult time is factual real time information.
One final thought (if you've made it this far without falling asleep I salute you ��):
Every single death is a huge tragedy, and I don't believe many people will be better off as a result of this virus. Our NHS, our care workers and our emergency services do an unbelievable job, they are hands down one of the best things about this country. Let's not forget though, that the world is battling to hold this virus at bay, and these problems we face aren't just happening in the UK, as our media will have you believe.
*******
P.S No I am not a 'bot' (whatever that means), no I didn't steal this from elsewhere and no I definitely am not writing on behalf of the conservative government. I have a wife, a dog, a job, I love playing & watching numerous sports, I am just a normal working class 30 yr old man

If all that wasn’t really written by a 5 year old in crayon, I’d be very disappointed. A fairly simple 5 year old at that.

So still too complicated for you then?

[Elite_Pie]

... a few thoughts by someone who I would not inflict with some on this site ...

I hear SO many people constantly moaning so here's my thoughts. And just to be clear I didn't actually vote for Boris Johnson.
I feel like if he'd have locked down sooner people would have moaned saying he panicked and caused a longer lockdown than was necessary.
I feel like if he'd locked down later people would have moaned saying he should have locked down sooner.
If he ends the lockdown soon people will moan saying he's putting people's lives at risk.
If he keeps the lockdown going people will moan saying he's wrecking the economy, the long term results of which will be worse than that of the virus (for example the vast number of lives lost during the Great Depression).
If he keeps the schools closed people will moan saying children are being denied their right to education and people can't go back to work until the schools open.
If he opens the schools people will moan saying it's not safe for children and teachers to go back.
They managed to get a furlough scheme going in next to no time - 80% of your wages covered for sitting at home, so that companies didn't have to get rid of staff. People moan that it's not enough. Then you get rich companies / people around the world using it as a money saving exercise rather than a last resort to making someone redundant.
People say our lockdown was too draconian and a waste of time and to look at Sweden who didn't implement a lockdown. Yet people also say our lockdown was too weak and to look at China who were literally spraying the streets with disinfectant and no-one could leave their house.
People demanded an exit plan, so he gives an exit plan. So people moan and say it's mixed messages and should have been released before the bank holiday.
He says he's following scientific advice, people dismiss the scientific advice saying it's rubbish.
He says you can now have unlimited exercise as he appreciates how important it is for mental and physical well being, yet people moan saying they can now exercise but can't see their family.
He's encouraged outdoor workers (construction, labouring etc) to go back to work as it's a lot easier to maintain social distancing outside of an office. People moan saying that's unfair. He's encouraged people to not use public transport unless they need to. People moan saying that's unfair.
I feel like if he'd quarantined everyone coming into the country people would have moaned saying it was against their basic human rights. Yet now he's saying all new arrivals will be made to quarantine, the airlines are moaning saying it will destroy their industry.
I feel like one minute an 'expert' is coming out saying the lockdown is a complete waste of time and the next minute another 'expert' is coming out saying without a lockdown it would have resulted in five hundred thousand deaths.
I feel like people talk about setting up and supplying PPE, Track & Trace and swab tests for millions, like it's as quick and easy as a stroll down the shops, without appreciating what a logistical nightmare it must actually be.
I feel like the unions and people will demand a safer environment (and so they should) and refuse to go back to work, but will also moan and cry about taxes going up as a result of the government having had to foot the bill for them being out of work for months.
I feel like people will happily point out we have one of the worst death counts in Europe but will fail to mention we are also one of the most densely populated. That people will happily pin every single death here on the government, as if this new horrific virus hasn't caused hundreds of thousands of deaths worldwide.
I feel like people in this country JUST LOVE TO MOAN. And if Boris Johnson magicked a vaccine out of thin air tonight, people would start moaning about the weather saying that was his fault instead.
I feel like people forget the government are human beings. They are doing the best they can guided by the best scientific advice in this country. Better advice than Piers Morgan or some cheap journalist.
I feel like the real villains are the immoral media who are full of lies, deceit and hidden agendas. The multi millionaires and rich companies who use the furlough scheme as a money saving exercise rather than leaving it for the companies that actually NEED IT. The people that never pay a penny of tax or national insurance yet rinse the state for all it's worth. Not forgetting the persons responsible for this deadly virus actually getting unleashed on mankind. They are the true villains, yet it's all too easy to blame the government.
I feel like whatever he does he CANNOT WIN.
Before people start replying with stats and 'how much worse it's been handled over here' - let me show you how easy it is to present stats to fit a certain narrative:
USA - tens of millions of people unemployed, no free healthcare, high number of deaths.
Italy - healthcare system completely overwhelmed, doctors forced to choose between who lives and dies. Similar number of deaths to the UK.
Spain - Population 30% smaller than the UK, with a death count 15% higher per million population, yet similar number of deaths.
France - Roughly same size population as the UK, on a landmass nearly 3 times bigger, yet similar number of deaths.
But, if you're still hell bent on making comparisons then surely it makes sense to make them against countries on a similar footing to our own, not countries on the other side of the world who are operating under completely different circumstances!
With regards the media - how many times has a government adviser announced a new bit of guidance, and how many times do one of the newspapers miraculously find a random 'expert' who just so happens to have the complete opposite opinion...
And the next time you watch one of the 5pm government briefings, listen closely to the questions the media ask and think to yourself how many of them are actually relevant / good solid questions and how many of them are designed with the sole purpose of tripping up those they are asking...
For me, I'm afraid large parts of the media have become glorified gossip outlets with a plethora of could, if's and maybe's, when what we as a nation need during this difficult time is factual real time information.
One final thought (if you've made it this far without falling asleep I salute you ��):
Every single death is a huge tragedy, and I don't believe many people will be better off as a result of this virus. Our NHS, our care workers and our emergency services do an unbelievable job, they are hands down one of the best things about this country. Let's not forget though, that the world is battling to hold this virus at bay, and these problems we face aren't just happening in the UK, as our media will have you believe.
*******
P.S No I am not a 'bot' (whatever that means), no I didn't steal this from elsewhere and no I definitely am not writing on behalf of the conservative government. I have a wife, a dog, a job, I love playing & watching numerous sports, I am just a normal working class 30 yr old man

The writer could have saved themselves a lot of time and effort and just put "whatever goes wrong, it's definitely not Boris Johnson's fault".

It must be great being in charge and having no responsibility at all.