Taking The Knee

[ramAnag]

I don't think BLM has been 'highjacked' though, I've previously said that there is a lot of evidence to show that they are racist in their own comments in interviews and media publications.

Unfortunately, the Liberal minded folk have jumped on a bandwagon of support for what they think is a good cause, without seeing or wishing to see the uncomfortable truth of the organisation.

Personally, I would totally back an ALM campaign, All Lives Matter, whether they be black, white, Asian, oriental or whatever.

Prefer ‘enlightened’ to ‘Liberal minded’, Ram...but, just out of interest, if you’re going to describe those of us who support the original aims of BLM in that way, what does that make those of you who oppose the BLM aims relating to equality and justice?

It’s all well and good to suggest it should be ALM rather than BLM...but you are, imo, rather missing the point.
The BLM movement was formed in 2013 following a number of incidents relating to the deaths or mistreatment of a number of people in the USA who all happened to be black.
There are far too many examples of institutionalised racism in the States too mention, but let’s take into account, as a background, the examples of the KKK, the Rosa Parks incident from the mid fifties and the assassination of Martin Luther King in 1968.
Let’s also consider the example of South Africa where, despite the largely cosmetic overthrowing of Apartheid, we all know that the majority of those living in poverty also just happen to be black.
In addition let us also address the situation which I raised earlier, and which went conveniently uncommented upon, where we find - in both the UK and the USA - that there is a disproportionate lack of black individuals amongst leading politicians, educationalists, industrialists and policy makers but equally a disproportionate surfeit amongst those living in poor areas, doing poorly paid jobs or in prison. Why do you think that might be?

Moving on to the question of statues...mention has already been made of how Savile’s statue and grave were removed once his wrongdoing was exposed. Perhaps more appropriately, mention of General Haig has gone uncommented on. Here was a man hailed as a war hero by many, until 2009 when it finally registered that he had been responsible for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of (largely white admittedly) troops at which point his statue was surreptitiously moved from its pedestal at Edinburgh castle and placed into a more ‘protective’ museum environment.

So, you see, the precedent for the removal of statues in this country has been set and I find it difficult to understand how an otherwise intelligent contributor such as yourself can seek to justify keeping such statues as the one to Edward Colston on the basis that he acted as a benefactor in Bristol as if it somehow outweighs the mistreatment of 84,000 and deaths of 20,000 Africans.

Statues are things to be looked up to and reserved for those who are worthy of our respect. As with Savile and Haig we may not have known about their wrongdoings at the time they were erected, but we do now and that is why...imo...they should be removed.

Finally, I agree of course that All Lives Matter, but I hope you will recognise from this post that the BLM movement has been born out of the specific treatment of black people from Rosa Parks in the US in 1955 to black footballers in Italy in the here and now. That is why Black Lives Matter...or perhaps that’s just my ‘Liberal minded’ self ‘jumping on the bandwagon’.

[Andy_Faber]

there is a disproportionate lack of black individuals amongst leading politicians, educationalists, industrialists and policy makers but equally a disproportionate surfeit amongst those living in poor areas, doing poorly paid jobs or in prison. Why do you think that might be?
’.

Would you like me, as someone with one foot in the appropriate ‘bubble’, to give you a partial answer by pm?

[ramAnag]

Would you like me, as someone with one foot in the appropriate ‘bubble’, to give you a partial answer by pm?

Not sure why you wouldn’t want to answer via the forum, Andy, but by all means...feel free.

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure why you wouldn’t want to answer via the forum, Andy, but by all means...feel free.

Because a) it’s off the original subject and b) I don’t want to anyone fanning the fire by throwing napalm on it

[Geoff Parkstone]

or may be its because he is busy this morning and will answer later in the afternoon?

[Geoff Parkstone]

and it gets more bizarre. Just looked at my linked in account and discover that at the top of a list of seemingly random people that they think I might wish to connect with, instead of the usual random people in my business, or who went to same university or workplace as me in the past, I find "random black people that I may wish to follow".

Are they serious, why on earth would I wish to connect with or follow someone based purely on the colour of their skin? Its both absurd and an insult to the intelligence. I will connect with someone if there is a purpose for it, be they black, white, brown or any shade you like. I will not connect with someone who, for instance is an actor or a magazine proprietor as was offered, whether they are black, white or brown etc. Its a ****ing business contacts site.

I guess everyone is trying to show that "they care", but really this smacks of desperation to be in "their gang". Madness

[ramAnag]

Because a) it’s off the original subject and b) I don’t want to anyone fanning the fire by throwing napalm on it

I might be missing something here but a) It isn’t really, it was always obvious where your thread on ‘taking the knee’ would lead and b) You’ve always seemed a reasonable enough chap...we may disagree sometimes but it’s never been ‘unfriendly’ and I can’t imagine you’re about to say something explosively inflammatory, but as I say...if you prefer to reply by pm that’s fine too.

[Andy_Faber]

I might be missing something here but a) It isn’t really, it was always obvious where your thread on ‘taking the knee’ would lead and b) You’ve always seemed a reasonable enough chap...we may disagree sometimes but it’s never been ‘unfriendly’ and I can’t imagine you’re about to say something explosively inflammatory, but as I say...if you prefer to reply by pm that’s fine too.

In summary, the problem I see, through being in or around the bubble, NOT through blind prejudice, is lack of male role models/mentors, mainly due to absentee fathers, for black children. I wrote a long justification for this assertion by pm but banana fingers applied and I lost it

[Geoff Parkstone]

God that is so inflammatory Andy, I don't know how you could possible have said it. I agree and can chuck in a further angle, which is that Indian-Asian individuals seem to be natural overachievers (medicine, finance, science, entrepreneurs) and live in broadly speaking multi generational families.

The inequality of opportunity is just as much to do with the triple F approach to relationships that undermine family stability and values as it is to do with any perceived prejudice. That is I freely admit a huge generalisation

[Andy_Faber]

Indian-Asian individuals seem to be natural overachievers (medicine, finance, science, entrepreneurs) and live in broadly speaking multi generational families.

Yup. In My old profession (finance) they were over represented and almost universally Up to the task