Sol Campbell leaves Southend

[forwardmagpie]

It's not just him though, we have had many top class black players but how many have been given a chance to manage?
I know that being a top player doesn't make you a top manager but surely you would think a few could do a good job if given the chance.

As a football club we should be proud that we have probably employed more black managers than any other club.

[BigFatPie]

Southgate also spent 3 years with the England U21's, which made it easy for them to trust him initially with the England caretaker job. I've worked at St Georges Park a few times during FA events and even after becoming the senior team manager he was still usually one of the first people in the room and last to leave where most wouldn't have been there for the events at all, Gareth was in the audience taking notes and is generally known as a nice guy.

Sol has come across as unlikeable for a very long time and seems to come out with ridiculous statements once every now and again to keep himself relevant, whilst he did well at Macclesfield if we hadn't been completely hopeless we would have taken advantage of the multiple opportunities we had to make up ground and go above them when they dropped points. I think it was more a case of us managing to be worse than them than him performing a miracle.

People point at Gerrard and Lampard getting top jobs but Lampard ending up at Chelsea was inevitable, he'd done decently well at Derby and Rangers is a pretty cushy gig imo, you've only got one team to beat and you're not expected to do it so as long as you're not terrible lifes easy.

Then you have plenty of examples of people who also had great careers as players that didn't go straight into a "top job" like Teddy Sheringham, Harry Kewell, Tony Adams, Dennis Wise and Paul Scholes and on the other side of the argument, Thierry Henry and Clarence Seedorf both walked into top jobs without any experience, I think it's kind of irrelevant.

I can't remember who said it but imo the lack of BAME managers in football compared to BAME players is a reflection of our past, not the present.

I don’t agree with your comparisons there. Lampard walked straight into a top end Championship job at Derby. Chelsea would have been far from inevitable if he hadn’t succeeded there. As you say, Rangers is a cushy number where a top two finish and automatic European football is guaranteed. Gerrard will no doubt manage Liverpool at some point, but he couldn’t have asked for a simpler start to his managerial career. Southgate walked straight into a Premier League job, and got the England job with a flimsy at best CV.

The others you mentioned either aren’t English, or have had better chances than Campbell. The possible exception being Sheringham, but he spent more time playing poker than getting his managerial qualifications. Scholes walked out of his only job within a week.

I’ve no idea why Campbell has only had two crap jobs, could be because he’s a nob, could be because he’s a Tory! I’ve never really bought the idea that black players are discriminated against in football, but Sol Campbell’s managerial career does make me wonder.

[ncfcog]

Does anyone have any data relating to the number of players from a BAME background applying for jobs in football management compared to white players in the UK?

I would like to see the number of BAME players currently registered in the top 7 leagues compared to white players and then to see how many BAME players went on to try and forge a career in management. Maybe the uptake in this respect is not particularly high. If this is the case why not? Is there a feeling among BAME players that they won't be taken seriously for management roles? If so why is that the case?

Unless we have some hard statistical data to prove there is an issue the claims for either side of the argument are essentially subterfuge. It's not a topic I have really followed but for which jobs has Sol Campbell been overlooked, is there a list?

[TheBlackHorse]

... maybe some BAME players want a fast track and are not prepared to do the hard work in non league. Who knows? ...

[legs77]

The hardest job for anyone regardless of colour is getting on the merry go round of football management.

Look at how bad Moyes is but it doesnt stop him getting good jobs.

Man City could lose Pep tomorrow they wont have an interview process they will already have a replacement lined up and it will more than likely be someone who has either won something or managed in a big European league.

Now you could look at Dyche think he has done a great job but he has no chance his best hope is Villa/West Ham due to how him and his style is viewed.

[upthemaggies]

Arguably the best Premier League manager behind Klopp at the moment is black, Nuno Espírito Santo at Wolves. You could now make a case for English managers not being given a fair chance. No English manager has won the PL since Howard Wilkinson. Who was the last English manager to make any sort of impression at Liverpool, Man United or Arsenal? Who was the last English manager of any real stature anywhere in the top half of the PL? Harry Redknapp was a reasonably strong character, Keegan was quite a while ago now, I'm struggling to think of any others.

[legs77]

True I guess Fergie and Rodgers are British though.

It is a global game and owners want the best both on and off the pitch that is my point about Man City.

Nuno is a superb manager I agree.

[Freeman25]

I don’t agree with your comparisons there. Lampard walked straight into a top end Championship job at Derby. Chelsea would have been far from inevitable if he hadn’t succeeded there. As you say, Rangers is a cushy number where a top two finish and automatic European football is guaranteed. Gerrard will no doubt manage Liverpool at some point, but he couldn’t have asked for a simpler start to his managerial career. Southgate walked straight into a Premier League job, and got the England job with a flimsy at best CV.

The others you mentioned either aren’t English, or have had better chances than Campbell. The possible exception being Sheringham, but he spent more time playing poker than getting his managerial qualifications. Scholes walked out of his only job within a week.

Lampard was known for years to be one of the most intelligent footballers around and got the Derby job through his family connections, Redknapp lined up the Ipswich job for him then when Frank didn't fancy it and Derby became available he told Mel Morris to go for Frank.

Southgate said the other day in a programme on BT that he wasn't ready to manage Boro and shouldn't have taken it but it was a last minute thing that he felt he couldn't turn down but he walked in to a premier league job just as Darren Moore did at West Brom, John Barnes did at Celtic, Chris Hughton did at Newcastle, and closer to home but obviously not a top job, Chris Kiwomya did at Notts, it's usually a case of being a good coach in the right place at the right time.

As for the others i mentioned, their nationality doesn't or shouldn't matter, they all had top playing careers (in England otherwise you could go on listing people for ages) like Sol did (less so Barton) and started their managerial careers at lower levels, where they did or didn't go after that or how long they spent there doesn't matter, the point is they didn't walk into top jobs despite being white and having glittering careers, it doesn't happen for everyone and Sol Campbell has no divine right to start at the top.

His personality is what holds him back, not his skin colour.

And if you saw his predicted England world cup lineup you might argue he was clueless just from that too

[Freeman25]

Arguably the best Premier League manager behind Klopp at the moment is black, Nuno Espírito Santo at Wolves. You could now make a case for English managers not being given a fair chance. No English manager has won the PL since Howard Wilkinson. Who was the last English manager to make any sort of impression at Liverpool, Man United or Arsenal? Who was the last English manager of any real stature anywhere in the top half of the PL? Harry Redknapp was a reasonably strong character, Keegan was quite a while ago now, I'm struggling to think of any others.

Eddie Howe might be the next to get a chance at one of the top clubs if he can steer Bournemouth away from relegation this season, he probably should have cashed out there already as he might have missed his opportunity now if they end up going down.

Lets not forget Big Sam

[ancientpie]

Looking at the make up of squads in this country I think it's fair to say that owners want whoevers best for the job regardless of colour or nationality & surely that should extend to managers, is it that many black players can be bothered with taking coaching badges etc? the fantastic earnings of prem players suggests to me that we will see less "top players" bothering with management in the future, they just don't need the money or stress.