Wigan Athletic.

[millertop]

Reading through the EFL Owners and Directors Test, the regulation doesnt cover a requirement to demonstrate 'financials' (although I may have missed it). The main thrust is to do with the legitimacy of the individual (their record in business, criminal conviction, involvecies, disqualifications, fraud, criminal convictions, etc).

The EFL cannot be accused of failing in a duty that isnt part of their remit.

You may feel it needs to be added. I think it would be pretty hollow.* Even if a prospective owner demonstrates an ability to finance the club, nobody can compel them to spend their money or continue in ownership after the choose to sell.* Adding this as a requirement could serve to kill off more than it saves.

Bury: Steve Day would have passed any requirement. He increased levels of spending to what he felt his buisiness could support. His Business went bust that brought the club down. If new owner Dale could not pass the fit and proper the club would have folded then. Non of it is the fault of the EFL. What if the EFL had blocked tje sale to Dale, the club couldnt find another buyer and folded?

Millers: Booth would pass any test. Yet no regulation could compel him to spend his money or prevent him from selling when he did. Millers 05 and, later, Dino and Dennis would not have passed your 'proof of financials' regulation. In theory we could have folded at the point Booth sold.

At the end of the day its the football community thats killing these clubs not the EFL.* But lets blame a convenient scapegoat.

So your saying that EFL can take anyone off the streets to run a club because they’ve passed the tests but don’t have any money? Yeah ok then the EFL are definitely looking after its clubs.

good sarcastic debate from you as usual, just disappointed it took so long

[WanChaiMiller]

Wigan: Whelan sold to HK based International Entertainment Corporation. All ok. Except, the activities of the Company are "hotel operations, and leasing of properties for casino and ancillary leisure and entertainment operations", in decline in HK since middle of last year and worldwide since Covid. No regulation can force them to spend or stop them from selling. The EFL or anyone else for that matter, are powerless.

[KerrAvon]

The thing is, MT is that clubs aren't the EFL's clubs. The EFL run the competition. They are not in the business of running clubs.

If someone has the money available to them to buy a club (which can involve clearing a lot of debt) then they can do so. The EFL will only intervene if they have a record of dishonesty or financial imporiety such as to render them not fit and proper.

The EFL has sought to curb reckless behaviour via FFP, but in the final analysis, they can't control the day to day running of clubs or how much owners 'invest' (for which read 'spend without any real hope of a return').

[millertop]

The thing is, MT is that clubs aren't the EFL's clubs. The EFL run the competition. They are not in the business of running clubs.

If someone has the money available to them to buy a club (which can involve clearing a lot of debt) then they can do so. The EFL will only intervene if they have a record of dishonesty or financial imporiety such as to render them not fit and proper.

The EFL has sought to curb reckless behaviour via FFP, but in the final analysis, they can't control the day to day running of clubs or how much owners 'invest' (for which read 'spend without any real hope of a return').

Thanks for that Kerr and putting me straight with the EFL

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

The other factor you get in this flawed model is the "last throw of the dice" factor

A club can be gradually haemorrhage money and eventually the club is forced into a last dice gamble throwing even more money at it to buy success.

This is a very strong factor with the "massive" clubs driven by the fans that the club deserves to be in a higher league

[WanChaiMiller]

The other factor you get in this flawed model is the "last throw of the dice" factor

A club can be gradually haemorrhage money and eventually the club is forced into a last dice gamble throwing even more money at it to buy success.

This is a very strong factor with the "massive" clubs driven by the fans that the club deserves to be in a higher league

Too true.

Also pressure exerted by fans as well. I remember pressure being applied on Stewart to chase the Championship dream January 2019.

[flourbasher]

In my comments yesterday I wasn't blaming the EFL or looking for a scapegoat or even saying it was their fault.
My point was that the EFL is weak and it's procedures should be improved and even they admit this.
Whether it will improve the situation remains to be seen but at least have better tools in place for the future to give everyone a fighting chance.
There are troubled waters ahead and a weak organization and procedures is the last thing we need.

With regard to comments made about S Dale ,s companies going bust is the reason Bury went under just isn't true. Whilst it is a factor that led to their demise the reason for their problems was because of their toxic debt and contractual position so no one would take them on.
Bury had a number of potential saviours but they walked away when they inspected the accounts,
Liabilities and contracts

[WanChaiMiller]

With regard to comments made about S Dale ,s companies going bust is the reason Bury went under just isn't true. Whilst it is a factor that led to their demise the reason for their problems was because of their toxic debt and contractual position so no one would take them on.
Bury had a number of potential saviours but they walked away when they inspected the accounts,
Liabilities and contracts

I typed Steve Day - it should have been Stewart Day. This is the person I meant to reference in my comment. He was the previous owner who sold to Steve Dale.

The problems of the club are absolutely down to Day. People create situations. The 'toxic debt and huge player contracts' you mention were put in place during Days' tenure. While his business was ok he could cover the position. As soon as he went bust the whole thing unravelled. Like you said, no one wanted to take it on. They are indelibly linked.

Not sure why or how Dale got involved, but, he was simply a passenger heading to the scene of the crash.

[WanChaiMiller]

In my comments yesterday I wasn't blaming the EFL or looking for a scapegoat or even saying it was their fault.
My point was that the EFL is weak and it's procedures should be improved and even they admit this.
Whether it will improve the situation remains to be seen but at least have better tools in place for the future to give everyone a fighting chance.
There are troubled waters ahead and a weak organization and procedures is the last thing we need.

The problem is the EFL is an executive body. Its rules and regulations are made by the Club Chairman. EFL management cannot unilaterally put in place a new set of regulations. Nothing can change without approval of the clubs. The league is run by the clubs.

[flourbasher]

I understand all that WC but change is required.
How they do it is for them to find a way but it can't carry on as it is now.
At the very least the efl should be recognising the shortcomings and risks and making change proposals to their members. Maybe they have done this but all I have heard this week is that they think they should beef up a procedure that was recognized as weak a year ago.
God help us in 12 months when the really big issues have manifested themselves