O/T:-Bum Lickers

[navypie]

Adi Akinfenwa was apparently on talkRACISM ( used to love listening to it when it was talkSPORT ) yesterday morning. Said he'd been stereotyped, something about being his size relating to his colour. There was me, thinking he revelled in his 'beast'' tag and made more of
a living out of it than footie.

[upthemaggies]

Adi Akinfenwa was apparently on talkRACISM ( used to love listening to it when it was talkSPORT ) yesterday morning. Said he'd been stereotyped, something about being his size relating to his colour. There was me, thinking he revelled in his 'beast'' tag and made more of a living out of it than footie.

Barely watched any football since it returned but presumably commentators are now describing a black player as reimagining 21st Century policy time-phases and solving parallel incremental options when they appear to be moving away from a defender, rather than simply describing him as using his pace.

I should post this link in the taking offence thread but seeing as I'm here.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROWl3yx_5ew

[countygump]

Barely watched any football since it returned but presumably commentators are now describing a black player as reimagining 21st Century policy time-phases and solving parallel incremental options when they appear to be moving away from a defender, rather than simply describing him as using his pace.

I should post this link in the taking offence thread but seeing as I'm here.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROWl3yx_5ew

[navypie]

Barely watched any football since it returned but presumably commentators are now describing a black player as reimagining 21st Century policy time-phases and solving parallel incremental options when they appear to be moving away from a defender, rather than simply describing him as using his pace.

I should post this link in the taking offence thread but seeing as I'm here.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROWl3yx_5ew

I've watched loads of footie since the return mate. It's amazing how everyone takes the knee, voluntary.

[drillerpie]

I didn’t imply you were far right at all. What I said was that I had only seen the term ‘antifa’ used pejoratively by the right/far right. That’s the way it is overwhelmingly used but you were right, some groups in the US call themselves by that name. I think our previous exchanges have proved that I’m ‘engaged with the topic’ so I don’t quite know why you think this letter has sparked a change.

On the letter itself, it is anodyne and bland, it has to be to get 150 people to put their signature to it. To take two sentences in isolation. ‘The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation’, and ‘We refuse any false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other’. Well, yeah. I don’t think there’s a single person on here who’d disagree with either of those two sentiments and we all know what a wide range of opinions there are. Again, I don’t know about the examples it cites, so can’t comment on their individual merit.

I do think there have been examples from the recent past where people have been afraid to have an honest debate. When Islamist attacks have happened, any questioning or criticism of that particular religion have been wrongly shut down as ‘Islamophobic’. I found the Charlie Hebdo atrocity a particularly heinous attempt to scare journalists and satirists into making Islam off limits. Some would say they’ve succeeded. We won’t agree on the BLM campaign. I think it has faults, but is generally A Good Thing, you think it’s some sort Marxist plot. Fair enough, we will, to use your words see who’s on the ‘right side of history’.

I think you have added the word 'pejoratively' since your original post but anyway I still don't see why you would bring that up at that point in the conversation unless it was to shut people down with an accusation of being right wing/extreme right wing.

Another possibility is that you genuinely didn't think Antifa existed. I see you have also admitted that you don't know any examples of events that Chomsky and others find worrying, so my immediate reaction to that would be: do you think you are getting a wide enough variety of information in your media diet, if you are not aware of any such events?

[EwarWooWar]

I didn’t imply you were far right at all. What I said was that I had only seen the term ‘antifa’ used pejoratively by the right/far right. That’s the way it is overwhelmingly used but you were right, some groups in the US call themselves by that name. I think our previous exchanges have proved that I’m ‘engaged with the topic’ so I don’t quite know why you think this letter has sparked a change.

On the letter itself, it is anodyne and bland, it has to be to get 150 people to put their signature to it. To take two sentences in isolation. ‘The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation’, and ‘We refuse any false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other’. Well, yeah. I don’t think there’s a single person on here who’d disagree with either of those two sentiments and we all know what a wide range of opinions there are. Again, I don’t know about the examples it cites, so can’t comment on their individual merit.

I do think there have been examples from the recent past where people have been afraid to have an honest debate. When Islamist attacks have happened, any questioning or criticism of that particular religion have been wrongly shut down as ‘Islamophobic’. I found the Charlie Hebdo atrocity a particularly heinous attempt to scare journalists and satirists into making Islam off limits. Some would say they’ve succeeded. We won’t agree on the BLM campaign. I think it has faults, but is generally A Good Thing, you think it’s some sort Marxist plot. Fair enough, we will, to use your words see who’s on the ‘right side of history’.

Google can be useful sometimes, a quick 1 minute search found the following:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40930831
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-39004753
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49382386
https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...ntifa-movement
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...nnes-criticism
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-yiannopoulos

So what to claim you never heard of them is a falsehood.

But on more important matters, again I ask: Do white lives matter?

[BigFatPie]

I think you have added the word 'pejoratively' since your original post but anyway I still don't see why you would bring that up at that point in the conversation unless it was to shut people down with an accusation of being right wing/extreme right wing.

Another possibility is that you genuinely didn't think Antifa existed. I see you have also admitted that you don't know any examples of events that Chomsky and others find worrying, so my immediate reaction to that would be: do you think you are getting a wide enough variety of information in your media diet, if you are not aware of any such events?

I don’t know Driller, normally I would agree with you that people should be widely read as possible, but you obviously think you are and it certainly hasn’t done you much good, particularly on this issue. Your mate Cobley was complaining at the weekend about people being sad about Jack Charlton dying, do you think I should read more of his output? The only people you seem to be taking issue with on this thread is me and DSR, fair enough, you seem determined to be categorised as far right and/or racist, well you’re in good company on here.

I said I hadn’t heard about Antifa groups because I hadn’t heard of Antifa groups. Maybe because when it comes to the US, my attention was directed to the ACTUAL WHITE SUPREMACIST in the White House. Apologies if someone has told you that’s an unfair assessment of him. Maybe I should buy some Ben Shapiro books, or read some more Melanie Phillips, or listen to some extra Brendan O’Neill podcasts, after all we all need more tedious reactionary pricks that are constantly moaning about how their free speech is being restricted, despite being on telly and writing newspaper columns ALL THE F00KING TIME. In the 80s those same people would have been complaining it was a disgrace that Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning weren’t allowed to tell darkie jokes anymore. You’d have been nodding in agreement.

For the final time, the movement to make people kinder to each other does go too far sometimes, as with the Islamophobia example I mentioned and the also the 12 year old getting actually arrested yesterday for the Wilf Zaha tweets was ridiculous. I’m sure they won’t have to search far in that case to find who real villains are, and it won’t be too far from home. But eh, they’re perfectly entitled to fill their son’s head with racism, free speech innit?

[EwarWooWar]

I don’t know Driller, normally I would agree with you that people should be widely read as possible, but you obviously think you are and it certainly hasn’t done you much good, particularly on this issue. Your mate Cobley was complaining at the weekend about people being sad about Jack Charlton dying, do you think I should read more of his output? The only people you seem to be taking issue with on this thread is me and DSR, fair enough, you seem determined to be categorised as far right and/or racist, well you’re in good company on here.

Serious question, how do you determine is someone is far right and/or racist? From what you write is seems to be everyone that disagrees with you.

I said I hadn’t heard about Antifa groups because I hadn’t heard of Antifa groups. Maybe because when it comes to the US, my attention was directed to the ACTUAL WHITE SUPREMACIST in the White House. Apologies if someone has told you that’s an unfair assessment of him.

It is unbelievable you had not hear of antifa, the news was full of articles when Trump was elected. As for Trump being an ACTUAL WHITE SUPREMACIST, do you have any real proof of that other than your opinions?

Maybe I should buy some Ben Shapiro books, or read some more Melanie Phillips, or listen to some extra Brendan O’Neill podcasts, after all we all need more tedious reactionary pricks that are constantly moaning about how their free speech is being restricted, despite being on telly and writing newspaper columns ALL THE F00KING TIME. In the 80s those same people would have been complaining it was a disgrace that Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning weren’t allowed to tell darkie jokes anymore. You’d have been nodding in agreement.

Again, people that disagree with you are somehow defective, this time they are reactionary. The again reactionary has always been Marxist speak for disagrees with us. If you are interested in some other points of view I would suggest Maajid Nawaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz an anti extremist campainer, Bret Weinstein a progressive college professor forced from his job my a mob of students please feel free to look into the Evergreen College affair and it was a warning of what is going on now. I would also suggest Christina Hoff Sommers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Hoff_Sommers. Each these are also people on the left side of the political spectrum but they are on the libertarian side rather that the authoritarian as you are.

For the final time, the movement to make people kinder to each other does go too far sometimes, as with the Islamophobia example I mentioned and the also the 12 year old getting actually arrested yesterday for the Wilf Zaha tweets was ridiculous. I’m sure they won’t have to search far in that case to find who real villains are, and it won’t be too far from home. But eh, they’re perfectly entitled to fill their son’s head with racism, free speech innit?

Someone needs to have a word with the kid and tell him why he shouldn't throw insults around, not to anyone. How do you know it's the parents though? Mom might be a single parent that doesn't have the time to properly look out for the son and so he is gone off the rails and has got in with the wrong types.

The thing I wonder about is, how do you check you are not wrong about everything. Me I read articles about a subject written from differing viewpoints and weigh up how I feel about it, what do you do though how do you know you are not wrong?

I would be interested where you fall on the political compass, this is where I fall https://www.politicalcompass.org/ana...3.38&soc=-5.44 about as far from being a Nazi or a Fascist as you can get.

[drillerpie]

I don’t know Driller, normally I would agree with you that people should be widely read as possible, but you obviously think you are and it certainly hasn’t done you much good, particularly on this issue. Your mate Cobley was complaining at the weekend about people being sad about Jack Charlton dying, do you think I should read more of his output? The only people you seem to be taking issue with on this thread is me and DSR, fair enough, you seem determined to be categorised as far right and/or racist, well you’re in good company on here.

I said I hadn’t heard about Antifa groups because I hadn’t heard of Antifa groups. Maybe because when it comes to the US, my attention was directed to the ACTUAL WHITE SUPREMACIST in the White House. Apologies if someone has told you that’s an unfair assessment of him. Maybe I should buy some Ben Shapiro books, or read some more Melanie Phillips, or listen to some extra Brendan O’Neill podcasts, after all we all need more tedious reactionary pricks that are constantly moaning about how their free speech is being restricted, despite being on telly and writing newspaper columns ALL THE F00KING TIME. In the 80s those same people would have been complaining it was a disgrace that Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning weren’t allowed to tell darkie jokes anymore. You’d have been nodding in agreement.

For the final time, the movement to make people kinder to each other does go too far sometimes, as with the Islamophobia example I mentioned and the also the 12 year old getting actually arrested yesterday for the Wilf Zaha tweets was ridiculous. I’m sure they won’t have to search far in that case to find who real villains are, and it won’t be too far from home. But eh, they’re perfectly entitled to fill their son’s head with racism, free speech innit?

Ha ha well I think you need to make your mind up if you consider me a racist. A couple of days ago I was, for using the words Antifa and woke, this morning I wasn't, now there's a lot of nudging and winking in your latest post which implies you think I am again.

I'm surprised you say that I'm determined to be categorised as a racist. Have I expressed any racist ideas or insults? They'd be against the board rules so feel free to report them. If not then I'd say that's quite the Pavlovian response to being disagreed with you've got going on there.

My mate Cobley is, as you well know, not my mate. I quoted him because he's the author of an article which neatly encapsulated my thoughts on BLM and provided examples of the forced compliance aspect of it, not because I'm endorsing him for Basileus. Whatever he has written about Jack Charlton makes no difference to that at all, but it does highlight once again your inability to judge and debate an issue on its merits - it's all about the personalities and their reputations. I can see why the intersectional ideology appeals to you, or at least doesn't worry you.

I'm genuinely baffled as to how a politically engaged, tech savvy person like your good self could not be aware of Antifa.

What's even more bizarre is you say you hadn't heard of them, but despite that you considered yourself justified in making judgements about people, based just on their using the word Antifa, about whom you admit you knew nothing.

Even worse than all that perhaps is the fact that you weren't aware of any cases of debate being stifled that Chomsky and the other intellectuals were referring to in their open letter.

I do remember though that you refused to debate the points raised in an article I posted because you didn't like the author. You didn't want to hear any data that might have indicated that George Floyd's murder was more likely to be 'just' plain police brutality rather than evidence of racism, and even freely admitted that you would've ignored the data anyway. You said me and you shouldn't really be talking about this because of our skin colour, and you said you would blindly approve Davud Lammy's recommendations for the justice system because his skin colour means they must be good.

I also don't understand how you can blame the gaps in your knowledge on being distracted by Donald Trump. Have you got so little cognitive bandwidth that you can only follow one subject at a time? Also, if you're so focused on Trump surely it makes it more, not less likely, that you'd know about Antifa, seeing as he mentions them quite a lot. No, I'm calling BS on all of that. I stick by my original claim that you like your news to confirm what you already think, and you like your debates to consist of telling everyone they're stupid/racist and should foook off.

Ah yes Melanie Phillips and Brendan O Neill. I suppose I'm supposed to recoil in horror and distance myself from them too, because they're right wing. I have no idea what they're saying about BLM because I don't read them, but who knows? Give them a try, you might find what they have written interesting. As Chomsky et al said in the letter, bad ideas can be exposed as such through rational, open debate.

The last paragraph is another straw man argument presumably intended to leave the impression that I'm fine with kids being taught to be racist. I can't even be bothered to reply to it.

[BigFatPie]

Driller, my make main takes from your post are that you’ve got a weird obsession with the word Antifa and you also think people are accusing you of being racist when they aren’t. For clarity, 1. I was aware there were (far) left groups that demonstrated against Trump, sometimes violently. 2. I was aware that (far) right opponents called them ‘Antifa’. 3. I wasn’t aware they called themselves ‘Antifa’, as I have told you on at least one occasion. None of this matters when there is a white supremacist in the White House. As I have now told you twice. He’s probably the reason they even exist.

I suggest you and Mr WooWar get together and have a chat, it seems you’ve a lot in common.