(Anti)social distancing

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

So we have a contact spirit where (despite some reservations perhaps) there has been plenty of "contact", in both PL and Championsip games. Most feature zero use of masks by coaching staff, so what exactly is being achieved by denying fans from attending (even if numbers are limited to say half the ground capacity)?

Maybe you you should read up on the topic a little more before spouting nonsense.

[asturianblanco]

Cant believe people have bought into the hysteria, some believe that they risk dying the momment they open the front door ffs!

All i know is that i wont work until at least next year, so there's a good chance my business will go under. Meanwhile its ok for us to gather in our tens of thousands to protest, loot and destroy stuff in the name of the poor persecuted black community, we can protest for the lesbians, gender fluid and/or trannies. we gan gather in our thousands for whatever next weeks WOKE fake outrage is going to be, and we can gather to pull down our statues and history, and we can gather to roll around drunk in the streets, thats all good.

Meanwhile hard working people's businesses are going down the drain.

[WTF11]

That happens, not just when covid 19 is about. The death rate for June 2019 in the UK was higher than June this year. About 1400 people die in the UK per day on avarage, the old and unhealthy but now they just have positive test for covid on their death certificate. I won't even start on the testing and how inaccurate it is or the test itself.

Spot on.

[WTF11]

I would suggest we all hide in our basements until their is a vaccine.

I'm sure the vaccine will be 100% safe. it's great that the Chinese are helping us out on this. I'm sure they are 100% interested in our safety and that there is no way that Bill Gates or any of the other "500 million is the right population" crowd would ever do anything that might harm us. It's just great knowing that these fine people are so concerned about you and I.

Keep hiding in the basement and, above all else, make sure you wear you mask every you go. We should have that vaccine about the same time we have one for HIV, Herpes, Ebola and Dengue fever. Should be any decade now. In the mean time you'll have lost your health, sanity, money and dignity but you'll be safe. This will be another "peace in our time" moment for all of us.

And another spot on

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I hear you and the government messaging and actions of some (Mr Cummings) haven’t really helped.

There are so many variables and unknowns that it will take time for there to be any degree of consensus.

I agree that a lot of people seem petrified possibly without any reason but no doubt due to the effectiveness of the initial Government messaging.

What does seem to be clear if you look at the data and articles published by the US and UK universities involved in this or from the WHO is that predominantly but not exclusively it kills or badly affects the elderly over 65 who typically also have some other underlying condition.

Those under 60 who have died and especially those under 30 overwhelmingly have an underlying condition.

The UK strategy seemed based on making sure the NHS could cope and protecting the vulnerable. A lot of people are and I suspect will increasingly ask whether economic considerations should have played more of a role - not least as there are now daily announcements of companies going under and jobs being lost.

The problem is the virus still isn’t fully understood and there is no consensus on approach. That will take time which we don’t have. A big fear in public health circles is that it will continue to mutate and may become more deadly as well as being highly infectious.

In the context of football - elite athletes are strangely more susceptible to diseases and infections than the moderately fit. As such, all clubs are trying to keep access to players limited hence red, amber and green zones within the grounds for those with access.

The reason most professional sport is eager to resume is due to TV money. If the premier league does not finish then the clubs have to pay sky back all the money paid to them. Leeds are keen too for obvious reasons.

If you allow fans back with social distancing you most likely will have to tell some
Season ticket holders they can’t attend. You all need certain levels of security and other services if you have fans back it is becomes too complicated and costly.

Whilst it is hugely complex I do agree with you sentiment that if we don’t get more people back to work sooner rather than later then there are likely to be much bigger issues than COVID 19’ to deal with.

[WTF11]

Maybe you you should read up on the topic a little more before spouting nonsense.

Not sure what I have said that has so irritated you (at least on this topic, I know lot's has been said that got under your skin before)?

"Spouting nonsense"....and "reading up on the topic"...hmm. you really want me to quote you all the real science material that is out there, as opposed to the quasi-science that current restrictions are based on? There is NO science behind either the previous 2m distance, nor that now applying (has the virus suddently got heavier, or are we breathing less vigorously, FFS!). Limits around the world vary, for much the same reason, it's a best guess, no more no less, based on whatever historical material is still available from the 1917 flu pandemic!! similarly, there is no EVIDENCE that Covid-19 is anywhere near as lethal as our good old friend, influenza.

Covid is very infectious, thats a given. But its pi55-poor at killing on its own. (Of the covid-related deaths (around 45k) the current analysis indicates around 10% have no underlying health issues and of that 10%, 90% were over 75. That would suggest (just suggest mind you) that Covid on its own has killed around 450 people under the age of 75. Influenza, now that kills over 30k per year, every year, in this country alone, all on its lonesome and it kills across all whole age range, ethnicities, creed, colour etc etc. And do we see lockdown to "protect us" from catching flu?

As to vaccines, the 2019 flu vaccine was around 45% effective (in terms of providing protection) and even that 45% who gained protection were in the 55+ age bracket. Below that age (and significantly above it) the vaccine was either unnecessary (in the case of younger people) or almost useless in providing protection to those 70+. And this is a vaccine being constantly updated to try to keep pace with the mutations that the flu virus undergoes every year, because the worlds various health authorities know it has the poetntial to be a major killer, not the "new kid on the block" Covid.

Could Covid-19 mutate? Obviously. Is there a vaccine at present? No. Good luck with living in that bunker whilst that changes.

Why don't you read up on fact, rather than believing the spun sh1t that emanates from just about all governments and their supposed "experts" who are seemingly quite willing to say one thing and do another (wonder why?)

And as for my original post being "nonsense", you would suggest masks are being universally won by all coaching and support staff at every ground and at all times, used/worn/replaced as recommended? Gloves are almost totally absent, not worn even by those who are wearing masks, even though there are numerous hard surfaces where the virus can exist for a time. Players are most certainly in contact with each other (sometimes very mch so) and the habit of siptting seems to be just as prevalent in games played behind closed doors as it ever was beforehand, you would disagree?

Anti-social distancing (it really can't be described as anything else, no matter what spin is put on it) could be addressed if crowds were properly managed and numbers limited, perhpas just ST holders (about 15k in Leeds' case?) It's not beyond the capability of the authorities, just needs fans to act responsibly (and there is the rub). Instead it has been put on the "too hard" pile.

And your post #15 would suggest you agree with just about everything I have said in this post, so what exactly is the "nonsense" I have spouted?

[WTF11]

Cant believe people have bought into the hysteria, some believe that they risk dying the momment they open the front door ffs!

All i know is that i wont work until at least next year, so there's a good chance my business will go under. Meanwhile its ok for us to gather in our tens of thousands to protest, loot and destroy stuff in the name of the poor persecuted black community, we can protest for the lesbians, gender fluid and/or trannies. we gan gather in our thousands for whatever next weeks WOKE fake outrage is going to be, and we can gather to pull down our statues and history, and we can gather to roll around drunk in the streets, thats all good.

Meanwhile hard working people's businesses are going down the drain.

F00k me BB, now THAT we agree on totally!

[LeedsFTW]

I totally understand and even sympathise with people who are in danger of losing their livelihoods, one way or the other. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it is to deal with that situation.

My own experience from my local community (whom it has to be said did a fantastic job following guidance). To many people of all ages lost their lives due to C-19 and I am not talking about bull**** statistics.

I think the guidance when communicated, followed and enforced correctly saved lives. I am and always will be someone that puts health before money.

If I had to live in a tent to have a healthy family, no problem. I wouldn't hesitate.

If I was wealthy and all my family were gone, I wouldnt see any benefit in that personally.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Not sure what I have said that has so irritated you (at least on this topic, I know lot's has been said that got under your skin before)?

"Spouting nonsense"....and "reading up on the topic"...hmm. you really want me to quote you all the real science material that is out there, as opposed to the quasi-science that current restrictions are based on? There is NO science behind either the previous 2m distance, nor that now applying (has the virus suddently got heavier, or are we breathing less vigorously, FFS!). Limits around the world vary, for much the same reason, it's a best guess, no more no less, based on whatever historical material is still available from the 1917 flu pandemic!! similarly, there is no EVIDENCE that Covid-19 is anywhere near as lethal as our good old friend, influenza.

Covid is very infectious, thats a given. But its pi55-poor at killing on its own. (Of the covid-related deaths (around 45k) the current analysis indicates around 10% have no underlying health issues and of that 10%, 90% were over 75. That would suggest (just suggest mind you) that Covid on its own has killed around 450 people under the age of 75. Influenza, now that kills over 30k per year, every year, in this country alone, all on its lonesome and it kills across all whole age range, ethnicities, creed, colour etc etc. And do we see lockdown to "protect us" from catching flu?

As to vaccines, the 2019 flu vaccine was around 45% effective (in terms of providing protection) and even that 45% who gained protection were in the 55+ age bracket. Below that age (and significantly above it) the vaccine was either unnecessary (in the case of younger people) or almost useless in providing protection to those 70+. And this is a vaccine being constantly updated to try to keep pace with the mutations that the flu virus undergoes every year, because the worlds various health authorities know it has the poetntial to be a major killer, not the "new kid on the block" Covid.

Could Covid-19 mutate? Obviously. Is there a vaccine at present? No. Good luck with living in that bunker whilst that changes.

Why don't you read up on fact, rather than believing the spun sh1t that emanates from just about all governments and their supposed "experts" who are seemingly quite willing to say one thing and do another (wonder why?)

And as for my original post being "nonsense", you would suggest masks are being universally won by all coaching and support staff at every ground and at all times, used/worn/replaced as recommended? Gloves are almost totally absent, not worn even by those who are wearing masks, even though there are numerous hard surfaces where the virus can exist for a time. Players are most certainly in contact with each other (sometimes very mch so) and the habit of siptting seems to be just as prevalent in games played behind closed doors as it ever was beforehand, you would disagree?

Anti-social distancing (it really can't be described as anything else, no matter what spin is put on it) could be addressed if crowds were properly managed and numbers limited, perhpas just ST holders (about 15k in Leeds' case?) It's not beyond the capability of the authorities, just needs fans to act responsibly (and there is the rub). Instead it has been put on the "too hard" pile.

And your post #15 would suggest you agree with just about everything I have said in this post, so what exactly is the "nonsense" I have spouted?

I have read up on lots of this - My job requires me to. I have also been to the office several times as there was a need to do so and did so willingly.

The government web sites are pretty poor. Some of the government documents are very good some less so. The public messaging has gone off the rails as if there is no longer a magic voice to follow.

If you want to read the data I suggest you look at the stuff coming out of John Hopkins university and Cambridge and Oxford. They also have more unvarnished data sets too. The economist has published some good stuff too.

I took offence at your original post as football grounds are one of the few places where significant restrictions will and probably should remain in place for a while and your post sounded like a general moan.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I totally understand and even sympathise with people who are in danger of losing their livelihoods, one way or the other. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it is to deal with that situation.

My own experience from my local community (whom it has to be said did a fantastic job following guidance). To many people of all ages lost their lives due to C-19 and I am not talking about bull**** statistics.

I think the guidance when communicated, followed and enforced correctly saved lives. I am and always will be someone that puts health before money.

If I had to live in a tent to have a healthy family, no problem. I wouldn't hesitate.

If I was wealthy and all my family were gone, I wouldnt see any benefit in that personally.

Whether you think the government response was good bad or indifferent the last few weeks have generally been accepted to have a sense of drift from the government (the opposition seems clueless too). The government seems paralysed by not wanting to be criticised in the media or elsewhere as opposed to taking a lead.

The opening of hospitality at the weekend (I am
Involved in that sector) being a good example. Was it really a good idea to reopen things as widely as it did on a Saturday after 14 weeks of nothing. The guidance to the sector was okay but not enough ministers speaking publically understood it or what it meant leading to confusion.

The challenge that is not being addressed is getting kids back to school and students back to university so that their education and future is not affected any further.

There are lots of lessons from those sectors which remained open (and developed protocols before the government) such as supermarkets where there is no suggestion of spikes amongst staff”.

Lockdown was hard for all of us but what is coming is going to be a lot harder for many more as life may never return to what it was for an awful lot of people.

About 8 million people are currently unemployed or furloughed - when furlough as it is changes many more are likely to be made redundant.

The world and the UK were changing anyway but what may have taken 4 or 5 years will happen in months.

All I can say is I hope as many of you as possible and your families are safe and well and that you fare well over the next 12 to 18 months.

Maybe more people will realise modern politicians and the modern media are charlatans and don’t have the answers but are part of the issue. Not hopeful though.