coaches engaging in legal ***ual activity

[wendun]

Many years ago, whilst waiting for a taxi behind Rotherham bus station after a night out . a fight started. Two groups of blokes, but just 2 were fighting for whatever reason. The groups did not get involved.
One bloke was getting a proper beating. The bloke winning had had enough of hitting the other guy. The bloke getting the beating however would not stop, kept coming, got hit, fell down, got up and came again. The guy with the sore knuckles was showing remarkable restraint and dishing out the minimum to defend himself. He was asking the battered blokes mates to get hold of him and take home and save him from further punishment. The battered blokes mates did eventually step in and save him from himself.

Reminds me of Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. It is a well-known aspect of conflict that the losing side finds it more difficult to end hostilities.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Many years ago, whilst waiting for a taxi behind Rotherham bus station after a night out . a fight started. Two groups of blokes, but just 2 were fighting for whatever reason. The groups did not get involved.
One bloke was getting a proper beating. The bloke winning had had enough of hitting the other guy. The bloke getting the beating however would not stop, kept coming, got hit, fell down, got up and came again. The guy with the sore knuckles was showing remarkable restraint and dishing out the minimum to defend himself. He was asking the battered blokes mates to get hold of him and take home and save him from further punishment. The battered blokes mates did eventually step in and save him from himself.

Sounds like the knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[John2]

Your position can be summarised in this way:

1. Everyone knew or should have known what was going on because of the 2001 article and that you had heard the expression "p*ki sh*gger" at Clifton School (but may not have told anyone – you don’t seem to know);
2. Knowing what was going on the ‘townsfolk’ were ‘collectively guilty’ of not seeing the children concerned as victims; and
3. Maybe if the girl had been treated by the town as a victim rather than complicit the other authorities would have treated it differently too.

OK, the summary is helpful as its easier to address.

1. I think this is where I have my main gripe. The claim that I suggest everyone should have known the nature and extent is not one that I have made.
In post #98 I said:
"You say you had no idea what was going on - but clearly we had warnings."

I am acknowledging that we had no idea the scale of what was going on, but I'm just pointing out the fact that we did have warnings. Do you agree that is a fair interpretation of what I am saying?

You also seem to be suggesting I'm claiming everyone in the town knew the word p*ki sh*gger was being used, but I very explicitly clarified how far I saw awareness of that term being known when in post #98 I said "If this expression was in such widespread use, the local parents and teachers would have been aware." - this does not refer to the whole town. Do you agree that is a fair interpretation of what I am saying?

As an aside we know for a fact some local parents knew what was going on, here's a quote from this article:
https://inews.co.uk/news/rotherham-c...ns-iopc-387359
"A complaint by the child’s father, upheld after a five-year investigation, heard the officer described the abuse as “P*** shagging”"

On point 2: Again, the only things I have referred to the townsfolk collectively knowing about are the news stories of the time (I shared more than the 1 story btw) - so point 2 is only a reference to the things we did know about. You acknowldge there was widespread victim blaming of the stories we did know about - so are you also guilty of the thing you are accusing me of?

The townsfolk did know there were stories of 12-year-olds having *** with multiple men aged up to 26. And I shared evidence including from the local MP that at the time these girls were viewed as willing participants who needed to learn personal responsibility.

In post #101 I refer explicitly to the town only being aware of these publicised cases, and I recognise that we weren't aware of the full extent of the abuse (I'm actually saying this is a reasonable thing to find consolation in if you read it as intended):
"If you want to make yourself feel better that when these warning emerged you dismissed them as not realising the scale of the problem, or perhaps you only found it outrageous when discovering the race of the assailants, that's up to you. But we definitely had warnings that the people of Rotherham did not get upset about until it was way too late."

On this backdrop, my issue was in post #109 where you claimed "I don't buy into your idea that the whole of Rotherham should have known what was going on." - because this is something I never claimed, or I had at the very least clarified any ambiguities around the scope of p*ki sh*gging" by the time you levelled this accusation. Can you quote it if there is something you believe invalidates this assertion?

I only ever claimed that the wider town knew about these very public news stories, and I only ever spoke about the attitude in the context of what we did know that victim blaming was widespread. Is sharing this fact that white working class people were guilty of widespread victim blaming of these girls back then a culturally sensitive claim that I shouldn't be making?



A couple of other questions. If you acknowledge that wider society often didn't view 12-year-olds having *** with people up to the age of 26 as being victims and rather saw them as participants, do you think this can be described in some way as a societal failing?

You've also completely ignored the strong disparaging assertions you have made about my political views, a straw man which you invoked to blame 'politics like mine' for the the failings of authorities that led to this scandal. Its rather ironic you did this in a context of trying to call me out on misappropriating the blame don't you think?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

That last message is blanked out on my screen, but I assume it’s long, boring and chock full of cut and paste.

[John2]

That last message is blanked out on my screen, but I assume it’s long, boring and chock full of cut and paste.

lol, I predicted he'd go down the ignoring my proposal route. Looks like I was right.

[wendun]

That last message is blanked out on my screen, but I assume it’s long, boring and chock full of cut and paste.

Have to agree, Grist. I may be a pr*ck but at least I say my pr*ckish things in short posts. John2 is a boring, prolix rrse and if I could be bothered reading his self-regarding bullsh*t I would probably give the same response anyway: f*ck and find an avalanche.

[John2]

Have to agree, Grist. I may be a pr*ck but at least I say my pr*ckish things in short posts. John2 is a boring, prolix rrse and if I could be bothered reading his self-regarding bullsh*t I would probably give the same response anyway: f*ck and find an avalanche.

Yes, I have many faults, and I can accept why many might not like what I post on here. I can certainly come across verbose, dull, self-righteous, stubborn and patronising at times. But I do genuinely care for our town and its people, and while we all disagree on many things, that's something I think we all have in common. I genuinely haven't made up anything I've posted here, but I don't really mind if people believe that or not, I've not really minded at all of what people think of me from my posts on here. It is only a tiny glimpse of who I really am, as I'm sure it is for most of us. Life's too short to get upset at internet personas.

I genuinely have no ill will towards anyone on this forum, even those who my views are at polar opposite from. Believe it or not I do learn a lot from participating in this community, and I do get new perspectives, and I even get into conflict in other communities I frequent for being too 'right wing' in my defence of certain views that are aired here.

I won't take your wish that I find myself in an avalanche to heart, I sincerely wish you and all posters, Grist et al a happy life.