O/T 48,000 illegal immigrants housed in mainly 4 star UK hotels

[KerrAvon]

I agree. The channel crossings seems to be the vogue immigration scandal that Farage has used his influence to inflate outrage that is somewhat out of context with the numbers.

Do you know if someone who has outstayed their visa are then added to the stats for numbers of asylum seekers?

Re: looking at solutions to the problem, could it be possible to:

1. I wouldn't have thought it beyond the wit of the Gov't to put resources (if they accept the problem is as Patel laid out, or was she just joining Farage's method as she doesn't actually have to back up her 'ideas' with action?) into setting up stations at the main points on the Kent coast and popular points to receive incoming people and have then detained to return to where they started from (if this can be ascertained) - isn't this along the lines of the agreement that the UK and France had as a solution to this issue. I can see the problems with the numbers of landing points as well as ascertaining the starting points, but just trying to see what could be done with additional will and resources on this.

2. Step up the penalties for those organising the crossings. But are they French? If so, what law? Have the UK/France consulted on this? Confiscate their dinghy!

I would hope that the larger problem of entry by lorries and overstaying of visas would be addressed with the new border arrangements and increased will to deal properly with the problem but can't say I trust the Government after winning so much support by 'talking tough' on immigration but practically changing nothing except gaining power for themselves. I think that all solutions would be costly and legally very challenging but not insurmountable given will and resources. I'd be interested in your views especially on legal solutions, and how we might get around the common issues like no passports to determine origins etc.

The issue is probably insoluble. This country is politically stable and relatively safe and prosperous. For that reason it will always be attractive to people who live in countries that are none of those things. If you add in the proximity of the UK to France and the massive amounts of cross channel trade it becomes impossible to stop significant numbers of people entering the country illegally. Whilst Farage may have spoken out on the current trend towards small boat use, he is not the cause of the current media interest. The fact is that Covid has reduced the amount of vehicular traffic across the channel and people are turning to boats in desperation, making the issue more visible and, by dint of that, more newsworthy.

There is no legal solution to the issue. Prosecuting traffickers sounds attractive and I am certain that efforts are made to do so, but securing evidence is always going to be difficult. The money involved will often have changed hands in cash outside the jurisdiction of the UK or France leaving little or no paper trace and trafficked people will generally be reluctant to give evidence. They will often be in debt to their traffickers and will have vulnerable families within their countries of origin upon whom revenge can be taken.

The number of people entering the country illegally is such that the immigration law system has no hope of coping. It is impossible to detain the numbers involved, so many people will be released and will not be seen again, particularly after their applications to remain have been rejected. In many cases they will be in debt servitude to their traffickers who will assist them to avoid detection and detention so they can be put to work to repay their debts. Even when leave to remain has been refused some countries will not accept their citizens.

Probably the only way that you can reduce the flow of people into the country is to make it a less attractive place to be, by making it hard to live here without a settled legal status. May tried that with her hostile environment policy, but it didn’t end well. As you seem to want to make the thread an overtly political one, however, I must point out that the would be Home Secretary that you campaigned to have put into power last December didn’t seem to have a solution to the issue. Indeed, you must excuse me for thinking that she might have increased the numbers of people willing to try to make the trip if you had been succesful in your efforts:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8353846.html

[KerrAvon]

Either that or include jokes in your humour? ;-)

gm is probably the funniest poster on here. The reaction to his post simply reinforces the impression that being of the new Left requires one to become completely humourless; yet another reason why I will pass.

[ragingpup]

gm is probably the funniest poster on here. The reaction to his post simply reinforces the impression that being of the new Left requires one to become completely humourless; yet another reason why I will pass.

Is agree that GM is funny. Usually makes me chortle. Bit harsh to blame the whole of the new Left (whoever they are) for my mistaking the sarcasm in his post as a genuine attempt at a solution. My bad admittedly, but this seems like hyperbole of which Lord Monty would be proud of. "Take a bow son" 🙂

[ragingpup]

The issue is probably insoluble. This country is politically stable and relatively safe and prosperous. For that reason it will always be attractive to people who live in countries that are none of those things. If you add in the proximity of the UK to France and the massive amounts of cross channel trade it becomes impossible to stop significant numbers of people entering the country illegally. Whilst Farage may have spoken out on the current trend towards small boat use, he is not the cause of the current media interest. The fact is that Covid has reduced the amount of vehicular traffic across the channel and people are turning to boats in desperation, making the issue more visible and, by dint of that, more newsworthy.

There is no legal solution to the issue. Prosecuting traffickers sounds attractive and I am certain that efforts are made to do so, but securing evidence is always going to be difficult. The money involved will often have changed hands in cash outside the jurisdiction of the UK or France leaving little or no paper trace and trafficked people will generally be reluctant to give evidence. They will often be in debt to their traffickers and will have vulnerable families within their countries of origin upon whom revenge can be taken.

The number of people entering the country illegally is such that the immigration law system has no hope of coping. It is impossible to detain the numbers involved, so many people will be released and will not be seen again, particularly after their applications to remain have been rejected. In many cases they will be in debt servitude to their traffickers who will assist them to avoid detection and detention so they can be put to work to repay their debts. Even when leave to remain has been refused some countries will not accept their citizens.

Probably the only way that you can reduce the flow of people into the country is to make it a less attractive place to be, by making it hard to live here without a settled legal status. May tried that with her hostile environment policy, but it didn’t end well. As you seem to want to make the thread an overtly political one, however, I must point out that the would be Home Secretary that you campaigned to have put into power last December didn’t seem to have a solution to the issue. Indeed, you must excuse me for thinking that she might have increased the numbers of people willing to try to make the trip if you had been succesful in your efforts:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8353846.html

Good Post. But I think you're being a tad over sensitive in thinking that I'm trying to make the thread overtly political. I get what you're saying about how complex the situation is and agree that it looks insoluble but isn't it fair (and not just playing politics) to suggest that the decade of Conservative government and the latter stages of the 'New Labour' admin were trying to make us feel that they had answers if we'd vote for them, but in fact had very little? Or is it just that they all underestimated the complexity of it once they were in a position of being voted in to do something about it and then thought "oh feck"?!

[KerrAvon]

Politicians claiming that they have answers but in fact have very little? Blimey, Raging. For a political activist, you are incredibly naïve about politics. Or maybe naivety is a requirement to be a political activist...

It is in the nature of politics to claim to have painless solutions to every problem. When you were on the doorstep in Chingford last November, you told people that they had a chance to win free fibre broadband for life and to enter all they had to do was put their X in a box that you directed them to. You didn't tell them that putting that cross there was also their consent to the creation of a publicly owned telecom dinosaur that would have restrictive practices, overmanning, equality and diversity advisors and excessive layers of management coming out of its ears that they - the taxpayer - would be paying for.

When you tore the people of Chingford away from EastEnders to tell them that they could have free university education, you didn't tell them that some of the money would come from the increased taxation of UK businesses and that jobs would be lost in consequence. You also didn't tell them that the availability and/or quality of university education would be greatly reduced unless the lost funding from tuition fees was replaced pound for pound by that increased taxation.

As I have mentioned before, the Lib Dems occasionally tell the truth, which is why they are a political non-entity, for the moment at least.

Patel's latest ‘answer’ to the cross channel boat issue is to call in the navy. Do you know what that will do? It will put us into the position that exists off the coast of Libya, where traffickers have worked out that they don't have to go to the trouble and expense of providing boats that are capable of getting to Lampedusa - they only have to be able to get as far as the Italian naval patrols and the fleet of boats operated by humanitarian charities.

[ragingpup]

Politicians claiming that they have answers but in fact have very little? Blimey, Raging. For a political activist, you are incredibly naïve about politics. Or maybe naivety is a requirement to be a political activist...

It is in the nature of politics to claim to have painless solutions to every problem. When you were on the doorstep in Chingford last November, you told people that they had a chance to win free fibre broadband for life and to enter all they had to do was put their X in a box that you directed them to. You didn't tell them that putting that cross there was also their consent to the creation of a publicly owned telecom dinosaur that would have restrictive practices, overmanning, equality and diversity advisors and excessive layers of management coming out of its ears that they - the taxpayer - would be paying for.

When you tore the people of Chingford away from EastEnders to tell them that they could have free university education, you didn't tell them that some of the money would come from the increased taxation of UK businesses and that jobs would be lost in consequence. You also didn't tell them that the availability and/or quality of university education would be greatly reduced unless the lost funding from tuition fees was replaced pound for pound by that increased taxation.

As I have mentioned before, the Lib Dems occasionally tell the truth, which is why they are a political non-entity, for the moment at least.

Patel's latest ‘answer’ to the cross channel boat issue is to call in the navy. Do you know what that will do? It will put us into the position that exists off the coast of Libya, where traffickers have worked out that they don't have to go to the trouble and expense of providing boats that are capable of getting to Lampedusa - they only have to be able to get as far as the Italian naval patrols and the fleet of boats operated by humanitarian charities.

Good points, but do you not think that we political activists who went posting leaflets last December weren't head in hands at the developments of the months and year leading up to the last election? It was awful and we knew it, but I still think the think that made us go out was a belief that a Labour Government, even under Corbyn, would be a preferable thing to a Conservative Government. I think even you ended up voting Labour out of desperation didn't you, despite your distaste? The difference was that we went out and argued to try and secure this difference despite the difficulties that the leadership continued to throw at us, making it harder on the doorstep.

So yes, we weren't that naive, but we wanted even that version of Labour over what was to come from a Conservative government. That doesn't mean we were blind to the manifesto overload and thought that it was all deliverable.

[great_fire]

John2, your opportunity has come:

"Volunteers in Bristol sought to host asylum seekers in homes"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53723536

[Riv1]

Apparently figures will be revealed today (probably not by mainstream media who run scared of anything remotely racist).Yet numbers are increasing daily and nothing seems to be happening to stop it. France,who near as damn it are escorting boats into British waters, must be laughing at us.Who knows what viruses these people bring with them,especially as many have no identity papers,and none seem to be sent back. The cost to us tax payers must be many many millions. So much for Brexit controlling immigration !

Allegedly Tankersley Manor has quiet a few in, it is showing temporarily closed on Google. I heard a rumour it isn't closed just full?

[MillerBill]

Allegedly Tankersley Manor has quiet a few in, it is showing temporarily closed on Google. I heard a rumour it isn't closed just full?

This is getting overlooked by the broadcasting media. This is very worrying how they are not being honest with the general public.It's a cover up like we saw Roth.council with the *** grooming.Kent council cannot cope with this influx and we are now seeing hotels across the country housing these illegal immigrants.France is a huge safe country and offers asylum so why is this not taken here?These laws must be changed and why do we have 25 year olds classed as children?

[ragingpup]

Lol. Are the lefties keeping this thread going? 🙂