+ Visit Leeds United FC Mad for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 3 of 87 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 863

Thread: Transfer in's and out's rumours etc.

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    3,257
    Quote Originally Posted by MrsORichSenior View Post
    Genoa is the club Radz was interested in,since May 2020 apparently and his bids been rejected.

    https://www.football-italia.net/1570...us-offer-genoa

    MOT
    Mrs O, could you explain to me how a single entity can have a non-trivial financial interest in 2 football clubs which participate in competitions in the same continent? Isn't there possible significant conflict of interest? What for instance would happen if both Genoa and Leeds were to get into the Europa league or Heaven forbid the Champions league? Assuming Radrizzani were to get control of Genoa (which doesn't seem likely) but hypothetically.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    2,559
    Is gelhardt one for the future, he's only 18, has indeed signed though.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8,611
    Quote Originally Posted by norfolk white View Post
    Is gelhardt one for the future, he's only 18, has indeed signed though.
    By the way. What happened to all the other ‘ones for the future’ that we were buying in bulk last few seasons.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,858
    Quote Originally Posted by cherrypie7 View Post
    Mrs O, could you explain to me how a single entity can have a non-trivial financial interest in 2 football clubs which participate in competitions in the same continent? Isn't there possible significant conflict of interest? What for instance would happen if both Genoa and Leeds were to get into the Europa league or Heaven forbid the Champions league? Assuming Radrizzani were to get control of Genoa (which doesn't seem likely) but hypothetically.


    The old Fit & Proper test debate ?
    The multi ownership of clubs is always a topic of debate for FSA (Football Supporters Association) & FSE (Football Supporters Europe) and has resulted in various calls for one definite rule across all Football Associations to NO avail yet.Both organisations lobby for Fan representation to be compulsory in Football boardrooms by the way of which Leeds United do have now - so we can raise points but cannot vote on matters.

    With Radz (he's got a young family in Italy and that situation may need addressing) and the PL rules & slightly different UEFA rules allow him to a certain amount of shared ownership of 2 clubs at once if he desires or if he's about to sell in the future.

    Nottingham Forest are owned by Greek shipping magnate Evangelos Marinakis after his takeover was passed by the English Football League (EFL).

    The businessman is also the Olympiakos owner who had accusations of match-fixing in Greece but STILL passed the EFL's owners' and directors' test.

    So it's the definition of ‘control’ and the PL v UEFA disparity of it that's at odds.

    What becomes abundantly clear on a review of the PL and UEFA rules is that there is NO consistent approach across Europe as to what situations in club ownership could give rise to a conflict - which is ridiculous !

    One example is the 'ownership percentage' that one owner can have in two clubs in the PL is vastly different from those one can hold in two clubs in a UEFA cup or Champions League competition.

    The PL seems to be leading the way in its strict adherence to an almost ZERO tolerance NO conflict rule in club ownership. Whilst one may not have technical control of a club until owning more than 50% in that club it is undeniable that in many situations owners with lower percentages can have great influence in a club. The PL has taken a more prescriptive approach in defining control as 30% and even setting a 10% limit (at which they contend an influence IS possible).The Newcastle takeover failed as the definitive owner was not known.

    The UEFA Integrity Rules set a definitive limit of ‘control’ at 50.1% and above 'tho as recently redrafted Rules also make reference to ‘decisive influence’.

    The original UEFA Rule which the CAS ruled upon did not make reference to any ‘decisive influence’ stipulation and it is STILL not necessarily clear what would be considered a ‘decisive influence’ over another club’s affairs.

    There is no indication that UEFA will follow the PL and tighten its rules. Presumably, they consider that their ‘decisive influence’ clause is a suitable catch all provision. Such ambiguity (some would contend) equates to flexibility in being able to subjectively assess a set of circumstances on a 'case-by-case basis'. On the other hand detractors would point to such a provision leading only to regulatory uncertainty.

    With varying club ownership rules throughout Europe, perhaps a more prescriptive approach by UEFA may well be a sensible solution.

    MOT
    Last edited by MrsORichSenior; 10-08-2020 at 11:03 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    15,359
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyni View Post
    By the way. What happened to all the other ‘ones for the future’ that we were buying in bulk last few seasons.
    You mean the likes of Grot, Ineguchi, Sloth etc? Gone, thankfully.

    Happy with the Gelhardt deal, looks a good one and hopefully gets "managed" first team time before too long (once he has been Bielsa-fied!).

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    3,257
    Quote Originally Posted by MrsORichSenior View Post
    The old Fit & Proper test debate ?
    The multi ownership of clubs is always a topic of debate for FSA (Football Supporters Association) & FSE (Football Supporters Europe) and has resulted in various calls for one definite rule across all Football Associations to NO avail yet.Both organisations lobby for Fan representation to be compulsory in Football boardrooms by the way of which Leeds United do have now - so we can raise points but cannot vote on matters.

    With Radz (he's got a young family in Italy and that situation may need addressing) and the PL rules & slightly different UEFA rules allow him to a certain amount of shared ownership of 2 clubs at once if he desires or if he's about to sell in the future.

    Nottingham Forest are owned by Greek shipping magnate Evangelos Marinakis after his takeover was passed by the English Football League (EFL).

    The businessman is also the Olympiakos owner who had accusations of match-fixing in Greece but STILL passed the EFL's owners' and directors' test.

    So it's the definition of ‘control’ and the PL v UEFA disparity of it that's at odds.

    What becomes abundantly clear on a review of the PL and UEFA rules is that there is NO consistent approach across Europe as to what situations in club ownership could give rise to a conflict - which is ridiculous !

    One example is the 'ownership percentage' that one owner can have in two clubs in the PL is vastly different from those one can hold in two clubs in a UEFA cup or Champions League competition.

    The PL seems to be leading the way in its strict adherence to an almost ZERO tolerance NO conflict rule in club ownership. Whilst one may not have technical control of a club until owning more than 50% in that club it is undeniable that in many situations owners with lower percentages can have great influence in a club. The PL has taken a more prescriptive approach in defining control as 30% and even setting a 10% limit (at which they contend an influence IS possible).The Newcastle takeover failed as the definitive owner was not known.

    The UEFA Integrity Rules set a definitive limit of ‘control’ at 50.1% and above 'tho as recently redrafted Rules also make reference to ‘decisive influence’.

    The original UEFA Rule which the CAS ruled upon did not make reference to any ‘decisive influence’ stipulation and it is STILL not necessarily clear what would be considered a ‘decisive influence’ over another club’s affairs.

    There is no indication that UEFA will follow the PL and tighten its rules. Presumably, they consider that their ‘decisive influence’ clause is a suitable catch all provision. Such ambiguity (some would contend) equates to flexibility in being able to subjectively assess a set of circumstances on a 'case-by-case basis'. On the other hand detractors would point to such a provision leading only to regulatory uncertainty.

    With varying club ownership rules throughout Europe, perhaps a more prescriptive approach by UEFA may well be a sensible solution.

    MOT
    Thank you Mrs O for the erudite explanation. My understanding has been greatly enhanced. Completely forgot about the Forest owner example. As a fan, I think I would vote for 1 rule throughout Europe.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,858
    Quote Originally Posted by cherrypie7 View Post
    Thank you Mrs O for the erudite explanation. My understanding has been greatly enhanced. Completely forgot about the Forest owner example. As a fan, I think I would vote for 1 rule throughout Europe.
    Yep,one rule would be better.

    Leeds v Genoa ?
    A legal point of view could intervene in any possible 'conflict of interest' scenario as UEFA differs 4 ways in Ownerships to PL presently.

    1.shareholders’ voting rights.
    2.having the right to appoint or remove a majority of the members of the administrative, management or supervisory body of the club.
    3.being a shareholder and alone controlling a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights pursuant to an agreement entered into with other shareholders of the club.
    4.being able to exercise by 'any means a decisive influence' in the decision making of the club.

    It is the fourth point that creates some uncertainty as what is a “decisive influence”? Ultimately, if UEFA decides that an owner HAS sufficient control of two or more clubs then they'll NOT be allowed to both participate in UEFA competition end of.

    Example - That could be the likely scenario facing Red Bull Salzburg and RB Leipzig. Both are owned by Red Bull and both could finish in the qualifying places for the UEFA Champions League in their respective leagues.

    So IF such a situation ever happened you'll get your definitive answer Cherry,but don't hold your breath !

    MOT

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,303
    Quote Originally Posted by MrsORichSenior View Post
    Yep,one rule would be better.

    Leeds v Genoa ?
    A legal point of view could intervene in any possible 'conflict of interest' scenario as UEFA differs 4 ways in Ownerships to PL presently.

    1.shareholders’ voting rights.
    2.having the right to appoint or remove a majority of the members of the administrative, management or supervisory body of the club.
    3.being a shareholder and alone controlling a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights pursuant to an agreement entered into with other shareholders of the club.
    4.being able to exercise by 'any means a decisive influence' in the decision making of the club.

    It is the fourth point that creates some uncertainty as what is a “decisive influence”? Ultimately, if UEFA decides that an owner HAS sufficient control of two or more clubs then they'll NOT be allowed to both participate in UEFA competition end of.

    Example - That could be the likely scenario facing Red Bull Salzburg and RB Leipzig. Both are owned by Red Bull and both could finish in the qualifying places for the UEFA Champions League in their respective leagues.

    So IF such a situation ever happened you'll get your definitive answer Cherry,but don't hold your breath !

    MOT

    Ahh yes i do like Italian Riviera Ventimiglia,potofino,, potovenere, to name a few, hazy days..an long nights.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    5,225
    Quote Originally Posted by norfolk white View Post
    Is gelhardt one for the future, he's only 18, has indeed signed though.
    What is it with this quote everyone uses. Gosh, 18 if your good enough and better than the current player you should be playing. Look at our goalkeeper they say goalies don't come good till about 27 plus So why are we playing and sign the dude for 3 years? Answer the staff thinks he's good enough to be number 1.
    Example last week here in oz Melbourne Victory second last on the table and been horrible all season sacked coach dropped so-called stars and played the youth team against a side 3 rd on the table. Result in a 4_0 win away from home and kids played them off the park.
    If they good enough play them if they can't hack the pace nurture them in the seconds under 23 whatever it is.
    P.s you know who you are and you're still a Cant.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    5,225
    Quote Originally Posted by MrsORichSenior View Post
    The old Fit & Proper test debate ?
    The multi ownership of clubs is always a topic of debate for FSA (Football Supporters Association) & FSE (Football Supporters Europe) and has resulted in various calls for one definite rule across all Football Associations to NO avail yet.Both organisations lobby for Fan representation to be compulsory in Football boardrooms by the way of which Leeds United do have now - so we can raise points but cannot vote on matters.

    With Radz (he's got a young family in Italy and that situation may need addressing) and the PL rules & slightly different UEFA rules allow him to a certain amount of shared ownership of 2 clubs at once if he desires or if he's about to sell in the future.

    Nottingham Forest are owned by Greek shipping magnate Evangelos Marinakis after his takeover was passed by the English Football League (EFL).

    The businessman is also the Olympiakos owner who had accusations of match-fixing in Greece but STILL passed the EFL's owners' and directors' test.

    So it's the definition of ‘control’ and the PL v UEFA disparity of it that's at odds.

    What becomes abundantly clear on a review of the PL and UEFA rules is that there is NO consistent approach across Europe as to what situations in club ownership could give rise to a conflict - which is ridiculous !

    One example is the 'ownership percentage' that one owner can have in two clubs in the PL is vastly different from those one can hold in two clubs in a UEFA cup or Champions League competition.

    The PL seems to be leading the way in its strict adherence to an almost ZERO tolerance NO conflict rule in club ownership. Whilst one may not have technical control of a club until owning more than 50% in that club it is undeniable that in many situations owners with lower percentages can have great influence in a club. The PL has taken a more prescriptive approach in defining control as 30% and even setting a 10% limit (at which they contend an influence IS possible).The Newcastle takeover failed as the definitive owner was not known.

    The UEFA Integrity Rules set a definitive limit of ‘control’ at 50.1% and above 'tho as recently redrafted Rules also make reference to ‘decisive influence’.

    The original UEFA Rule which the CAS ruled upon did not make reference to any ‘decisive influence’ stipulation and it is STILL not necessarily clear what would be considered a ‘decisive influence’ over another club’s affairs.

    There is no indication that UEFA will follow the PL and tighten its rules. Presumably, they consider that their ‘decisive influence’ clause is a suitable catch all provision. Such ambiguity (some would contend) equates to flexibility in being able to subjectively assess a set of circumstances on a 'case-by-case basis'. On the other hand detractors would point to such a provision leading only to regulatory uncertainty.

    With varying club ownership rules throughout Europe, perhaps a more prescriptive approach by UEFA may well be a sensible solution.

    MOT
    Mrs. O people say that the people running the English league and other country leagues for that matter are corrupt main example been FIFA> Yes the greek dude is a criminal (you don't get to be rich and powerful otherwise)He has been buying the home league for years eg see how many titles his club in Greece has won over the last ten years.
    So it should not come as a surprise how he passed the requirements, As 2 and 2 go together in harmony.

Page 3 of 87 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast

Forum Info

Footymad Forums offer you the chance to interact and discuss all things football with fellow fans from around the world, and share your views on footballing issues from the latest, breaking transfer rumours to the state of the game at international level and everything in between.

Whether your team is battling it out for the Premier League title or struggling for League survival, there's a forum for you!

Gooners, Mackems, Tractor Boys - you're all welcome, please just remember to respect the opinions of others.

Click here for a full list of the hundreds of forums available to you

The forums are free to join, although you must play fair and abide by the rules explained here, otherwise your ability to post may be temporarily or permanently revoked.

So what are you waiting for? Register now and join the debate!

(these forums are not actively moderated, so if you wish to report any comment made by another member please report it.)



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •