Transfer in's and out's rumours etc.

[WTF11]

If early players bought/loaned by Orta before Bielsa were poor, even if we spent more on them, might it be possible that they weren't actually poor, but that they were just poorly coached/nurtured?

Allioski didn't look much in 2017-18.

And that the ones he's brought in since under Bielsa were similar in quality/level, but have been better coached to live up to their potential?

I'm happy to admit i criticised various players for their level of play in the time between Orta's arrival and Bielsa's, but looking back i'm wondering if with Bielsa in charge, people like Sako might have been more effective - Christiansen and Hickinbotham have hardly pulled up trees since leaving us, in terms of developing talent. Of course, Orta had a hand in the recruitment of the latter, although i now think that PH was just brought in temporarily to steady the ship that year.

Some i agree were an absolute lost cause and not good enough, especially his goalkeepers over time - but not many. I think Ekuban had a lot of potential, for example. I see his strike rate was 1 in 3 in the top Turkish division last year, a total of 9 in 28 games - and played for Ghana four times, scoring twice. Some of those lads would have thrived under MB.

Anything is possible Jez, more interested in what is likely.

[ozleeds]

The problem i see with this Orta thing is this.
Did he acquire crap players on the cheap? Yes but the governing body had us by the you know what so couldn't spend proper plus we didn't have the money.
The other thing people forget also in those dark times before MB was the constant changing of managers and every manager brought in new ideas and requirements and as the changes happened so quick he never had the funds to again get better players to meet there demands..
We also had players on these lists mentioned that never got a decent run due to the fact of the managerial changes and some may have proven good players but never had a chance. Klich Anyone? Ekaban became a great player in the turkish league which is very strong.(Sorry Jezz wasn't copying you just seen the above post after i wrote the ekaban thing.)
We had decent young players who in one way or another got big heads and moved on in that time so not all ortas fault.
Anyway it is what it is or more like it was as it was but it's all good now that's all that matters.

[WTF11]

The problem i see with this Orta thing is this.
Did he acquire crap players on the cheap? Yes but the governing body had us by the you know what so couldn't spend proper plus we didn't have the money.
The other thing people forget also in those dark times before MB was the constant changing of managers and every manager brought in new ideas and requirements and as the changes happened so quick he never had the funds to again get better players to meet there demands..
We also had players on these lists mentioned that never got a decent run due to the fact of the managerial changes and some may have proven good players but never had a chance. Klich Anyone? Ekaban became a great player in the turkish league which is very strong.(Sorry Jezz wasn't copying you just seen the above post after i wrote the ekaban thing.)
We had decent young players who in one way or another got big heads and moved on in that time so not all ortas fault.
Anyway it is what it is or more like it was as it was but it's all good now that's all that matters.

Oz, in the first year he was DoF, soon after the Radrizzani acquisition, we had two manager/coaches, Nielsen and Heckingbottom, both brought in in his (Ortas) watch as DoF. In that same first year the club spent TWICE as much on Ortas "selections" as in the next year when Bielsa was coach.

I agree it is what it us, but so many failures in the squad have been moved on, but the failure who brought them to the club remains, and if, to take the comment in earlier posts, he isn't "calling the shots", then just what use as a DoF is he?

[ozleeds]

Oz, in the first year he was DoF, soon after the Radrizzani acquisition, we had two manager/coaches, Nielsen and Heckingbottom, both brought in in his (Ortas) watch as DoF. In that same first year the club spent TWICE as much on Ortas "selections" as in the next year when Bielsa was coach.

I agree it is what it us, but so many failures in the squad have been moved on, but the failure who brought them to the club remains, and if, to take the comment in earlier posts, he isn't "calling the shots", then just what use as a DoF is he?

He is who he is and the dude that pays the bills is happy with him well that is all that matters. For all his failures we are where we belong and got there in a short time since he came. I agree with you on his selections but I also can understand to things we can't control a lot have failed cause one reason or another.
Is Mb just as bad? He leaves out young Pat who isn't so young his like 22 and plays Roberts I mean wtf? While I don't agree with some of his madness I don't pay the bills and that's all that matters.

[LeedsFTW]

• Forshaw – Jan 2018
• Jansson - Aug 2016 (Loan)
• Saiz – June 2017
• Roberts – Jan 2018
• Alisoki – July 2017
• Klich – June 2017

Total Spend - £25.59m
Income - £15.75 (£14.76 for Chris Wood)

Hmm, think this post is fairly interesting.

Murphy and Sacko were with the club before Orta

Going from memory think the following were bought for

Forshaw 4.5 million
Jansson 3.5 mill
Saiz 3.5 mill
Robert's 4 million
Alioski 2.5 million
Klich 2.5 mill

So out of £25.9 million spent, £20.5 million was on decent transfers that enhanced the 1st team and equates to an 80% success rate on spend value.

I think that's good, is it not?

Yes a lot of rubbish came into the club but according to the figures provided did not cost a great deal.

[WTF11]

Hmm, think this post is fairly interesting.

Murphy and Sacko were with the club before Orta

Going from memory think the following were bought for

Forshaw 4.5 million
Jansson 3.5 mill
Saiz 3.5 mill
Robert's 4 million
Alioski 2.5 million
Klich 2.5 mill

So out of £25.9 million spent, £20.5 million was on decent transfers that enhanced the 1st team and equates to an 80% success rate on spend value.

I think that's good, is it not?

Yes a lot of rubbish came into the club but according to the figures provided did not cost a great deal.

Dont go from memory. Be a little more diligent.

Of those you mention, only Roberts and Forshaw were brought in significantly (as in more than a month) after Orta became DoF, (so 9 of the 25 million) and are you really suggesting that either has contributed significantly to the fortunes of the club? So no, not "good" in any sense of the word.

[LeedsFTW]

Dont go from memory. Be a little more diligent.

Of those you mention, only Roberts and Forshaw were brought in significantly (as in more than a month) after Orta became DoF, (so 9 of the 25 million) and are you really suggesting that either has contributed significantly to the fortunes of the club? So no, not "good" in any sense of the word.

Disagree, a DOF will have a portfolio of players that they have been monitoring for weeks, months or even years, so the time span in which a player is brought to a club after the the appointment of a DOF is irrelevant imo. They were brought in due to the DOFs research etc.

You cant disregard the decent signings and solely blame him for all dross, that were signed in the same timeframe.

I have not claimed that Forshaw or Robert's have made a significant impact yet, but they are still part of the 1st team squad and highly regarded by Biesla, so I will stick with the figures I have stated. Forshaw it's a bit harsh on him as he is out due to injury, which I think has been mishandled by the club.

[WTF11]

He is who he is and the dude that pays the bills is happy with him well that is all that matters. For all his failures we are where we belong and got there in a short time since he came. I agree with you on his selections but I also can understand to things we can't control a lot have failed cause one reason or another.
Is Mb just as bad? He leaves out young Pat who isn't so young his like 22 and plays Roberts I mean wtf? While I don't agree with some of his madness I don't pay the bills and that's all that matters.

So you "supported" GFH AND Cellino no matter what, really?

[WTF11]

Disagree, a DOF will have a portfolio of players that they have been monitoring for weeks, months or even years, so the time span in which a player is brought to a club after the the appointment of a DOF is irrelevant imo. They were brought in due to the DOFs research etc.

You cant disregard the decent signings and solely blame him for all dross, that were signed in the same timeframe.

I have not claimed that Forshaw or Robert's have made a significant impact yet, but they are still part of the 1st team squad and highly regarded by Biesla, so I will stick with the figures I have stated. Forshaw it's a bit harsh on him as he is out due to injury, which I think has been mishandled by the club.

Not disregarding anything, good or bad (unlike you and most other who seem to thinnk for some reason that the sun shines out of Ortas ar5e and are not only willing but eager to ignore the sh1te he has foisted on the club, spending more when "uncontrolled" than at any point since until we were promoted).

"DoFs research", hmmm....

[whitestomper45]

If anyone is "moving the goalposts" to suit their argument it's you (not for the first time).

My post detailing issues with Ortas performance was clearly limited to the comparison between his 1st & 2and year as DoF, nothing to do with the Academy or any of the non-1st team squads. You chose to bring that and the mire recent "controlled" acquisitions etc etc, to suit your argument.

But hey, as usual tackle man, not ball.

No fanny it's you.... as been pointed out the DOF arrives at a club pre-armed with info on players, and still you have nothing to praise about his role in the turnaround at the academy...just pick the bits that suit you on this... your usual deflect and ignore... thankfully few give a shyte as club is on up...