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Thread: How many points will we get

  1. #11
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    Makes sense Massa - substance over form should be relevant in the accounting: and hence the date of the economic impact of the transaction (to sell the asset and commence leaseback) should overrule the legal form (date when the legal niceties are finalised)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    Time for fixtures to be sorted? Due for publication in 9 days time. The fixture lists will be complete or as good as. Have a change which sees team A relegated instead of team B? Do a "change all" in the 2 Leagues' fixtures and "voila". Then give the police a couple of days to decide of there are any risky games they want to move and you have the new list.

    Would it be that simple though?
    In short, no it wouldn't be that simple.

    I read an article once about the compiling of the fixture lists. It revealed massive complications when clubs put in requests for fixtures not to clash with local rivals or local events. Other considerations also came into the equation and each consideration had a knock on effect to other teams fixtures.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Sheffield Wednesday likely to appeal. Charlton likely to appeal...along with Stevenage and Macclesfield, and we don’t even know about Villa and Derby yet.
    What a mess and what a great job the EFL appear to be doing. One court case is unfortunate. Four or five? Something is wrong and begs the question...are the EFL actually fit for purpose?
    Most worrying to me is Wednesday’s 12 point penalty being held over to next season. In their case I suppose it’s some sort of good news because it avoids relegation this season...hence Charlton’s potential appeal.
    In our case it will just screw up next season before it has even started.
    IF we get the same penalty - or worse - then realistically the best we can hope for next season is to avoid relegation. That’s hardly going to inspire any potential incomers, ‘Come to Derby and spend a season fighting relegation’...hardly the most attractive proposition.
    As I say...what a mess...but at least Wednesday know what they’re up against.
    Villa are staying in the prem so the EFL can't touch them until they get relegated so no impact!

    Likely to appeal? If its a clear cut as it seems cannot see what Wed can appeal against? No doubt there is a detailed reason as to why the pts deduction is for next season, but if the stated one is that its an historical event not administration in a current season which is an immediate pts deduction. As for the others appealing we shall see it ain't happened yet, so no point in worrying before the milk is even spilt!!

    Given that you were worrying we were relegated this season if pts deduction was applied to Derby, surely if one is applied (and I'm still reasonably confident it wont based on Wed case) surely a 12 pts deduction next season is better than what you were originally worrying about? Also it aint necessarily the case that we will spend a season fighting relegation, try a glass half full for a change!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram59 View Post
    In short, no it wouldn't be that simple.

    I read an article once about the compiling of the fixture lists. It revealed massive complications when clubs put in requests for fixtures not to clash with local rivals or local events. Other considerations also came into the equation and each consideration had a knock on effect to other teams fixtures.
    Absolutely correct, its quite a complicated process, with input from local Police forces, local non league clubs who don't want their home games to clash with local big boys, a change of one team can **** up a whole series of fixtures!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
    Villa are staying in the prem so the EFL can't touch them until they get relegated so no impact!

    Likely to appeal? If its a clear cut as it seems cannot see what Wed can appeal against? No doubt there is a detailed reason as to why the pts deduction is for next season, but if the stated one is that its an historical event not administration in a current season which is an immediate pts deduction. As for the others appealing we shall see it ain't happened yet, so no point in worrying before the milk is even spilt!!

    Given that you were worrying we were relegated this season if pts deduction was applied to Derby, surely if one is applied (and I'm still reasonably confident it wont based on Wed case) surely a 12 pts deduction next season is better than what you were originally worrying about? Also it aint necessarily the case that we will spend a season fighting relegation, try a glass half full for a change!
    My ‘glass half full’ self share being ‘reasonably confident’ with you and thinks maybe we won’t get any sort of deduction and the EFL will realise the error of their ways.
    Failing that, MM’s legal team will see off any charge.

    Beyond that...it’s a little difficult to be ‘glass half full’ if there is a 12 point deduction. This season for instance, we weren’t bad at all after Christmas and were in contention until four or five matches from the end of the season, and yet the removal of twelve points would have seen us finish just four points above the drop.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    My ‘glass half full’ self share being ‘reasonably confident’ with you and thinks maybe we won’t get any sort of deduction and the EFL will realise the error of their ways.
    Failing that, MM’s legal team will see off any charge.

    Beyond that...it’s a little difficult to be ‘glass half full’ if there is a 12 point deduction. This season for instance, we weren’t bad at all after Christmas and were in contention until four or five matches from the end of the season, and yet the removal of twelve points would have seen us finish just four points above the drop.

    Hardly, its not that I think the EFl will see the error of their ways, its that Wed didnt get done for the sale of the stadium but for including it in their accounts 12 months before the sale to massage their losses, which Derby haven't done. So that case points to us being OK on that score, as I said in a previous post our issue appears to be the valuation, so we shall see what happens.

    Well you were worrying about a pts deduction this season and now your worrying about one next, only on the basis that we managed enough results to mean that a 12 pt deduction wouldn't have affected us this season!! Now circumstances have changed your being gloomy about next season, though of course I realise this means that your view that next season would be better spent in the championship as we would have more chance of getting promoted and staying up is threatened, so we would have been better doing Villa and escaping the clutches of the EFL!

    In reality we were never in contention, we beat teams we might be expected to and failed miserably against any in the top 6, so mid table at best along with a dozen other teams!!

    If we are going to make a serious promotion push next season, with this fully developed and rebuilt squad you go on about then we are going to ahve to do much better than this season and should be able to cope with the loss of 12 pts, IF that is indeed the sanction.

    I worry that you just seem to worry all the time about things you can't change! que sera sera!

  7. #17
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    May 2018
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    RA, methinks you are definitely exhibiting "Eeyore Syndrome" - gloomy, negative and stubborn. Everytime there is a slight positive, you can find a negative in it!

  8. #18
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    Hang on...you two can adopt the unfamiliar role of ‘happy clappers’ as much as you like if it makes you feel better.
    I’m not being unduly negative, stubborn or gloomy, although I am perhaps guilty of realism.
    I still hope, just as you do Swale, that we won’t get any sort of points deduction and I remain optimistic that we won’t.

    Having said that...the scenario was always going to be that the 2019/20 season was going to be a season of rebuilding under a new manager unfamiliar with the demands of the Championship.
    Should (that means ‘IF’) next season is to be derailed from the off by a significant points deduction I’ll be disappointed. I’d anticipated good things with Cocu being able to assemble a team that he believes is fit to challenge in the Championship and IF we face a hefty points deduction then those plans seem likely to be on hold for another season.

    That is all I’m saying - not ‘worrying’ about. I save that for more serious matters.
    Seems to me like realism, but then this time last year had anyone predicted Keoghgate, Rooney being our captain, or football having to be played behind closed doors they’d have been declared insane...so who knows what will happen?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
    Hardly, its not that I think the EFl will see the error of their ways, its that Wed didnt get done for the sale of the stadium but for including it in their accounts 12 months before the sale to massage their losses, which Derby haven't done. So that case points to us being OK on that score, as I said in a previous post our issue appears to be the valuation, so we shall see what happens.

    Well you were worrying about a pts deduction this season and now your worrying about one next, only on the basis that we managed enough results to mean that a 12 pt deduction wouldn't have affected us this season!! Now circumstances have changed your being gloomy about next season, though of course I realise this means that your view that next season would be better spent in the championship as we would have more chance of getting promoted and staying up is threatened, so we would have been better doing Villa and escaping the clutches of the EFL!

    In reality we were never in contention, we beat teams we might be expected to and failed miserably against any in the top 6, so mid table at best along with a dozen other teams!!

    If we are going to make a serious promotion push next season, with this fully developed and rebuilt squad you go on about then we are going to ahve to do much better than this season and should be able to cope with the loss of 12 pts, IF that is indeed the sanction.

    I worry that you just seem to worry all the time about things you can't change! que sera sera!
    Swales I worry that you worry about RA worrying, He can't change from worrying about things he can't change ,but you can stop worrying about him 😊😊

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistaram View Post
    Swales I worry that you worry about RA worrying, He can't change from worrying about things he can't change ,but you can stop worrying about him ����
    Mista...and Swale...don’t worry, be happy. Fun time Frankie’s just lost at Wembley and England are about to win the cricket...again!

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