How many points will we get

[mistaram]

You may recall 12 months ago that I thought the valuation / the profit it generated / nepotic nature of the transaction was very suspect. Since when various people have pointed to the EFL sanctioning the transaction and thus it would be hypocritical of them to then act against the club for carrying out something that it has signed off on.

Somewhere in the middle of this ball of conteadiction must lie an element of truth. The amortisation issue should be no more than a smokescreen if it's been going like that for several years without contradiction.

So I revert to my original stance. The principal involved, and what we have done, seems wrong. But if someone in authority has okayed it, then so be it. But it plainly is not that clear cut as it would have been sorted months ago

Geoff the EFL have had two independent values of their own done since . One valued the stadium at £40million and the other at £60million . That is where the problem lies if you have ten estimates you are likely to get ten different valuations . I always thought value of anything is what someone is prepared to pay . Anyway that's not getting us any closer to a decision .

[Ram59]

Hardly ‘whinging’, Parky...I leave that to you these days for anyone who makes even a semi political suggestion you disagree with.
In any case, as I recall and without looking back at it, that was a case of ‘cross threading’.
Either way...if you look really carefully you’ll find that both my comments were suggesting that the media, including sports journalists, appear to be taking their lead from governments who are entirely unfamiliar with the concept of truth these days.
We have got to a stage where I genuinely don’t know whether we’ve actually done something seriously wrong and Morris is lying through his teeth or if the EFL has screwed up, got things horribly wrong and are busy trying to make MM/DCFC the fall guys. I seriously hope - and want to believe - it’s the latter...maybe you could explain.

There you go again RA, making wild accusations that the media are taking their lead from the government. I think the media had their own idea of the truth a long long lonnng time before Johnson got out of short trousers, but you're implying that they have been led astray by this government.

Is getting repetitive and boring how you seem to steer so many conversations into an attack on this government.

We're discussing our possible points deduction and Liddle's ramblings on the subject. Like many journalists, he is no longer a journalist who investigates and exposes the whole truth, he just pedals his own view on a subject, parading as the truth.

I bet you, me, tricky and co would love to sprout our arguments in the national media and get paid handsomely for it, as do the likes of Liddle and Munchetty and others.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Technically speaking the economic value of an asset such as Pride Park is the discounted net present value of the revenue streams generated by the asset, rather than either what it cost to build or, necessarily, what someone would pay for it.

if we look at the revenue flows from PP, we have a long term leaseback arrangement with DCFC which pays £ 1m per year if I remember correctly. Lets say its over 25 years and assume an average interest rate of 2% that flow is worth about £ 15-16 million in today's value. Clearly there are extra net cashflows coming from other uses of the ground, but there would need to be a hell of a lot of it to generate 80m

[mistaram]

Technically speaking the economic value of an asset such as Pride Park is the discounted net present value of the revenue streams generated by the asset, rather than either what it cost to build or, necessarily, what someone would pay for it.

if we look at the revenue flows from PP, we have a long term leaseback arrangement with DCFC which pays £ 1m per year if I remember correctly. Lets say its over 25 years and assume an average interest rate of 2% that flow is worth about £ 15-16 million in today's value. Clearly there are extra net cashflows coming from other uses of the ground, but there would need to be a hell of a lot of it to generate 80m

So there are so called experts who have valued it how on earth can it vary from £40million to £60million to £80million There must be some criteria they have to work to . Or is it like many seem to think guess work

[mistaram]

There you go again RA, making wild accusations that the media are taking their lead from the government. I think the media had their own idea of the truth a long long lonnng time before Johnson got out of short trousers, but you're implying that they have been led astray by this government.

Is getting repetitive and boring how you seem to steer so many conversations into an attack on this government.


We're discussing our possible points deduction and Liddle's ramblings on the subject. Like many journalists, he is no longer a journalist who investigates and exposes the whole truth, he just pedals his own view on a subject, parading as the truth.

I bet you, me, tricky and co would love to sprout our arguments in the national media and get paid handsomely for it, as do the likes of Liddle and Munchetty and others.

Ram your getting to touchy mate all RA has done is point out that sports journalists are like our PM and MPs they both make a living by peddling lies. Tricky peddled lies about Corbyn all the time . If you take things to heart about what people post on a football forum you will end up making yourself ill

[ramAnag]

There you go again RA, making wild accusations that the media are taking their lead from the government. I think the media had their own idea of the truth a long long lonnng time before Johnson got out of short trousers, but you're implying that they have been led astray by this government.

Is getting repetitive and boring how you seem to steer so many conversations into an attack on this government.

We're discussing our possible points deduction and Liddle's ramblings on the subject. Like many journalists, he is no longer a journalist who investigates and exposes the whole truth, he just pedals his own view on a subject, parading as the truth.

I bet you, me, tricky and co would love to sprout our arguments in the national media and get paid handsomely for it, as do the likes of Liddle and Munchetty and others.

Lol...and there you go again, Ram...repetitively trying to tell, others what they can and cannot say.

Two points...1) I wasn’t aware that Trump and the Chinese were part of the government.
2) My point was about the way in which the truth is increasingly being sacrificed on the altar of expediency.

I’m just putting forward an opinion on a forum...that being that politicians are setting a bad example which others, particularly sections of the media, are following so that the truth is lost over issues as diverse as Covid, Brexit and little old DCFC’s argument with the EFL.

Ironically, your single sentence about Mr. Liddle is exactly what I’m talking about, but what can we expect when those who are allegedly the ‘leaders’ amongst society appear to have such disregard for the truth?

Maybe you believe you know the truth about such disparate matters as the Covid pandemic...the implications of Brexit which will surface in a little over four months time...and whether Mel Morris or the EFL are telling the truth.
Personally, as - I’d like to think - a relatively bright individual, I’m struggling to be able to distinguish fact from fiction. The attitude of the two journalists referred to just seems symptomatic to me of changes which have taken place in our society over the last decade or so...i.e. agenda and ideology over truth.

[swaledale]

You may recall 12 months ago that I thought the valuation / the profit it generated / nepotic nature of the transaction was very suspect. Since when various people have pointed to the EFL sanctioning the transaction and thus it would be hypocritical of them to then act against the club for carrying out something that it has signed off on.

Somewhere in the middle of this ball of conteadiction must lie an element of truth. The amortisation issue should be no more than a smokescreen if it's been going like that for several years without contradiction.

So I revert to my original stance. The principal involved, and what we have done, seems wrong. But if someone in authority has okayed it, then so be it. But it plainly is not that clear cut as it would have been sorted months ago

You have a touching faith in organisations and the human race in general then! Maybe the opposite is true, somebody or some people are trying to make a case where its threadbare at best and its taking the independent tribunal a long time to reach a conclusion which is legally watertight?

I mean if UEFA can "**** it up" royally in their water tight case against Man City, which tbh looked a clear cut case, then anything is possible!

[swaledale]

Oh ****, here goes another football thread to the zombies of government abuse....

Not really, it was about Liddle and his ilk who peddle lies and fake news, nothing to blow a gasket over and surely if a post isn't interesting, one ignores and moves on to the next? Or is that too clear cut?

[Geoff Parkstone]

You have a touching faith in organisations and the human race in general then! Maybe the opposite is true, somebody or some people are trying to make a case where its threadbare at best and its taking the independent tribunal a long time to reach a conclusion which is legally watertight?

I mean if UEFA can "**** it up" royally in their water tight case against Man City, which tbh looked a clear cut case, then anything is possible!

I'm not 100% sure what the tribunal is actually doing. Is it the initial judge and jury, or is it the appeal tribunal against a decision made and not yet made public, or do we then have the appeal etc to come before any decision is made? Surely we are reaching a point where, as MeringueNag says our planning for 20-21 is being prejudiced by the indecision and we have a case under natural justice against the EFL for delaying? If they keep holding out for much longer our 20-21 season will be screwed from a recruitment perspective even if we get a "no case to answer" decision in our favour? EFL have no need to find us guilty as they can just bugger around until our season implodes on the back of an inability to recruit. They can then withdraw gracefully knowing they have achieved their objective

[ramAnag]

I'm not 100% sure what the tribunal is actually doing. Is it the initial judge and jury, or is it the appeal tribunal against a decision made and not yet made public, or do we then have the appeal etc to come before any decision is made? Surely we are reaching a point where, as MeringueNag says our planning for 20-21 is being prejudiced by the indecision and we have a case under natural justice against the EFL for delaying? If they keep holding out for much longer our 20-21 season will be screwed from a recruitment perspective even if we get a "no case to answer" decision in our favour? EFL have no need to find us guilty as they can just bugger around until our season implodes on the back of an inability to recruit. They can then withdraw gracefully knowing they have achieved their objective

Quaint...amongst all the fairly pitiful attempts at piss-taking (MeringueNag?) you are 100% agreeing with the point I made weeks ago.