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Thread: Dealing with inept people!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by boingy View Post
    I think you’ve overplayed the Graduates theme.

    Not really Boingy. I did not get the opportunities to go to university or private school but good luck to those that do! Too many are resentful because they didn’t get the same opportunities and take the view - “ I did well enough “

    Sadly with many professional occupations if you don’t go to university you can’t hope to get into the career of your dreams. I do agree though - some who go to university or have top A Levels have no common sense - our Prime Minister is the prime example. Boris is awful at public speaking and at times the hands do the talking but he’s far from stupid if you know his background!

    Horses for courses! If I wanted manual hard graft I would employ someone who is highly motivated with a strong work ethic! If I wanted a professional person to analyse data to work out thousands of pounds in price changes then I would recruit somebody who is proven with relevant qualifications which comes at a cost!
    Last edited by baggieal; 01-08-2020 at 07:44 PM.

  2. #12
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    One of the points that hasn’t been mentioned is that university degrees have over the last few years been cheapened by successive governments. Seems every body has a divine right to go to uni and the masses want to exercise that right.

    As with most things I don’t think there is one right answer either way. You clearly need a degree if you are studying medicine or structural engineering etc. On the other hand, so many kids who probably shouldn’t have gone in the first place end up with pointless degrees that serve only to get them jobs in supermarkets or retail. It really does not mean they are any more capable of delivering good customer service or selling more but they still get the jobs.

    A mate of mine took early retirement having been a senior manager in a large corporate IT department. He applied for a job at Asda on the supermarket floor deliberately wanting something non taxing that he could do blindfolded he said. They turned him down as he didn’t have a degree giving the jobs to graduates instead.

    Myself and one other ran a business unit in a global service business. We had a small but highly productive team and only 20% held degrees. We built the turnover up from zero to 16 Million in 8 years. The other parts of the business were heavily reliant on graduates. They consistently missed targets and we constantly had to bail them out via creative accounting. Many were clueless in common sense and basic intelligence and cause us endless problems with poor treatment of customers

    In a customer services or sales role I would always hire based on attitude, hunger and intelligence and not because they have some limp degree in business studies or Star Wars.

  3. #13
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    Having over the years hired lots of graduates and non graduates, I honestly cant say that one lot are better or worse
    They bring different challenges in managing them

    Some non grads, think they know everything esp if they have experience in the area in some way
    Agree with the deckchairs and Titanic comment re the graduates, have found this, but I have to say in my experience of having grown quite a few departments and companies (of all sizes) the main way of ensuring results is good management

    For example Mick, your experience was the arsey fella, but what you have to look at is how the fella has been allowed to behave in this way.
    Is it a policy of the company, have they trained him correctly, are they communicating the right principles etc

    I have hired lots of people I thought were absolutely useful but with good management, reviews, ensuring adherence to well formed policies & processes turned these guys into really good valuable resources.

    Id say it was more to do with the make up and mindset of the individual, most youngsters are pliable and can be influenced in one way or another (as one size/approach does not fit all)
    For eg. how do you teach someone to have a work ethic, this is something that is more of a mindset from your experiences growing up normally, you can attempt to build this in with KPIs and measurements but someone who knows what they are being measured to do can still find ways around it if they are that way inclined

    I always look for a strong work ethic and ability to question themselves and what they did as a really good guide for a good employee, shows the ability to work hard and grow.

    But one thing I strongly believe is that it is the responsibility of the employers to ensure their managers are properly instructed and guided to ensure they are managing their employees well, it takes a lot of communication, measurement and continual improvement

    There are organisations that I have been very proud with what I have achieved in implementing this and some where it was impossible due to other factors so its not easy top to bottom, but individually in one department should be easy esp if that dept is customer facing

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by baggieal View Post
    Bit of a general statement Boingy! Many big brands have a graduate programme with the aim of propelling graduates right to the top ie senior management/director level and invest a huge amount of money in this recruitment. I can name a couple of very successful companies where individuals who were graduates at John Lewis/TUI who then went on to run the companies as CEO'S and were extremely successful.

    Bit of a difference of " graduates " who are carefully recruited at large successful companies and the same title " graduates " used at some poxy little marketing or IT company or in this case a BMW Garage!

    Graduate recruitment at most large supermarkets/stores receives around 3000 applicants for less than 20 positions with a minimum of a 2.1 entry and around 4/5 interviews. The starting salary for example at Aldi for a grad is 44K and this will rise to about 78K in 3 years as each grad is expected to become an Area Manager. Don't meet the targets - no ifs and buts they are fired! But most do with large brands as recruitment is done right hence the investment.

    I do here what you are saying though about common sense with some - but you could say this about anyone including our Boris but hey - look where he is and he will be worth millions.
    I wouldn't say that everyone with a 2:1 is intelligent I have met plenty of knucklehead thickos with 2:1s
    The education system is no where near as good as it used to be.

    Interesting you used Aldi as an example do you have an experience with them bud?

    As in my experience their whole idea is pretty flawed for some people, their grads and directors are chosen on the experience to manage people and be pliable.Its like the army with a message reinforced all along the chain.
    All levels of management are a mouthpiece for a single message from one place that must be adhered to, so they pick people who are very much into team games/sports
    That works providing you have people who blindly follow all along the path, problem is when these people are put into specialised areas eg. IT and you have someone with an ancient history degree trying to make decisions on fairly technical IT issues

    But they do pay incredibly well, and have managed to get a workforce that wouldnt get paid that elsewhere, making they very pliable and susceptible to suggestion, another reason why they want Grads in

    They even make them dress the same, wear welted sole shoes, navy suits, black shoes etc
    In fact in their offices you cannot unbutton shirts, loosen ties and until recently even grow a beard

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by baggieal View Post
    Not really Boingy. I did not get the opportunities to go to university or private school but good luck to those that do! Too many are resentful because they didn’t get the same opportunities and take the view - “ I did well enough “

    Sadly with many professional occupations if you don’t go to university you can’t hope to get into the career of your dreams. I do agree though - some who go to university or have top A Levels have no common sense - our Prime Minister is the prime example. Boris is awful at public speaking and at times the hands do the talking but he’s far from stupid if you know his background!

    Horses for courses! If I wanted manual hard graft I would employ someone who is highly motivated with a strong work ethic! If I wanted a professional person to analyse data to work out thousands of pounds in price changes then I would recruit somebody who is proven with relevant qualifications which comes at a cost!
    I still know what I'm saying Al.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by boingy View Post
    I still know what I'm saying Al.

    Perhaps, you have met different " grads " to me. The two grads I knew are now CEO'S of multi national companies and are as bright as buttons hence why they are driving these companies forward. I am talking many many millions in turnover. So your general statement is flawed.

    There are people with zero common sense in all walks of life. Boris does not come across with any common sense but hey - he was appointed into that position for a reason.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaggieSingh View Post
    I wouldn't say that everyone with a 2:1 is intelligent I have met plenty of knucklehead thickos with 2:1s
    The education system is no where near as good as it used to be.

    Interesting you used Aldi as an example do you have an experience with them bud?

    As in my experience their whole idea is pretty flawed for some people, their grads and directors are chosen on the experience to manage people and be pliable.Its like the army with a message reinforced all along the chain.
    All levels of management are a mouthpiece for a single message from one place that must be adhered to, so they pick people who are very much into team games/sports
    That works providing you have people who blindly follow all along the path, problem is when these people are put into specialised areas eg. IT and you have someone with an ancient history degree trying to make decisions on fairly technical IT issues

    But they do pay incredibly well, and have managed to get a workforce that wouldnt get paid that elsewhere, making they very pliable and susceptible to suggestion, another reason why they want Grads in

    They even make them dress the same, wear welted sole shoes, navy suits, black shoes etc
    In fact in their offices you cannot unbutton shirts, loosen ties and until recently even grow a beard

    Supermarkets/large travel companies/Mars/Nestle etc generally recruits their grads well ie Aldi/Asda and M&S to name but a few and the ones I know, have gone on to be part of the senior management teams/running the companies. It tends to be very large dynamic companies who have graduate recruitment teams who are the ones who select well and the competition is fierce so they rarely get it wrong. I knew the grad of TUI UK well and now he's the CEO - mega brain and always destined for the top as his commercial knowledge of the company was second to none.

    As in all walks of life - there are many with no common sense and come across as quite thick. Our Boris is one of them and despite being far from thick - would you employ him?

  8. #18
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    I can usually tell who starts a thread just by reading the header.
    I thought that this was going to be about Darren Moore though Mick.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBA1955 View Post
    I can usually tell who starts a thread just by reading the header.
    I thought that this was going to be about Darren Moore though Mick.

    He's not just inept Des - he's super thick that's why he's a pundit now along with Rio and Cole ( two others as thick as pig s hit )

  10. #20
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    A few observations from my own experiences as both a former graduate and an employee. No slight intended to any posters on this thread. I repeat, they are observations taken from my own experiences. Poor employees are generally the result of poor recruitment, insufficient training and little to no mentoring. A good starting point is the application itself. Do the applicant and their qualifications/experiences fit the job description for the post I am looking to fill?

    Next up, the interview process. Beware the articulate candidate who mirrors your body language and smiles a knowing smile. If they look like liars they generally are. Liars aren't to be trusted so don't employ them, graduates or not. Liars are like cuckoos in a nest, they blag their way through life feeding off those around them. They are a societal infestation and contaminate everything in their vicinity. I have worked with and attended courses with a number of articulate liars. They were complete w@nkers for the most part and a drain on my patience and personal resources.

    As for qualifications they mean you were able to structure your time sufficiently to pass an exam or a series of assessments set by people who often haven't attained much of truly genuine note in the fields they set curriculums for. If they had they probably wouldn't be setting curriculums. They'd be more likely to be achieving even more or they'd have their feet up somewhere nice and warm with something cold on the go. They are often (but not always of course) well meaning w@nkers, but w@nkers nonetheless.

    Once you've sorted the wheat from the chaff at the interview stage support your new employees and reap the rewards of their endeavours. Easier said than done in many instances as certain people are very hard work. It can take more effort than seems worthy but there's method to the madness. Sink or swim is an outdated mode of employment in most environments. It leads to perpetual recruitment, re training and is an avoidable expense to business. In my experience bosses who adhere to the sink or swim philosophy of employment are often bullying w@nkers who were bullied themselves at some point. That or they were simply buggered senseless either at home or at boarding school.

    Blustering around raging at the inadequacies of others is not a good look, especially when the answer to quandaries such as 'why are you so bad at what you do?' can often be found in the mirror. I have worked for a number of bosses like this and I have zero time for them as either bosses or as human beings. In good old business jargon, get your ducks in a row (or they'll sh it all over the place). Remember, poor employees are generally the result of poor recruitment, insufficient training and little to no mentoring.

    And others are just plain sh it at everything they do, good day all .

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