O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

Well I guess if they shut down all food shops, all public transport, taxi's, hospitals GP surgery's etc. then people would slightly more aggrieved than they are over school closures.

Thats where your logic falls down a little, all the workers in those occupations have daily close contact with hundreds of a people a day from almost anywhere. Plus the risk assessment and stats to date show teachers at greater risk than those workers.

So a strategy of vaccinating those most at risk and working through them is to me entirely logical, and in order of risk one would do medical staff, transport staff, shop workers, police, before teaches, that being the case its going to take time before they get to teachers.

because by the same logic your using if society wants to be able to shop for food, visit hospital travel by public transport, then the workers in those occupations should be vaccinated first.

That covers a fair few people, which cohort would you suggest stand back and allow teachers to be vaccinated first and why?

I haven’t at any time suggested anyone should ‘stand back and allow teachers to be vaccinated first’.

I completely agree that those such as shop workers, hospital workers and transport workers are equally deserving and I’ve both made and acknowledged that point myself.

This part of the debate however is about the possibility of reopening schools by March 8th. It is my opinion that, for that to happen, teachers need to be in the forefront of the vaccination process.

Doubtless we can all make a case for a ‘preferred’ occupation to go to the front of the queue. I’m not actually engaging in a competition, simply making the point that very few have to actually share the same air as thirty(ish) others, in a confined environment, for an extended period of time in the way that teachers do.

You don’t agree...that’s fine too.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Teachers may be in a confined space, but in effect they havve a semi bubble by always seeing the same people in that space. Shop workers, transport drivers etc all meet totally different people within a day and from one day to the next and are far more exposed as a result. Furthermore such people no doubt encounter antimaskers with regularity which (by my understanding) is not a risk teachers face.

But this: "I haven’t at any time suggested anyone should ‘stand back and allow teachers to be vaccinated first’". Can you explain in words I can understand how you can put the teachers to the forefront of the vaccination process without making others stand back.

If I am 75th in a queue waiting to talk to vodafone call centre, and a teacher wanted to have his phone sorted out as a priority, I would perforce slip to 76th if this request was acquiesced to, without "standing back". You simply cannot move someone up a priority list without moving someone back.

[ramAnag]

Teachers may be in a confined space, but in effect they havve a semi bubble by always seeing the same people in that space. Shop workers, transport drivers etc all meet totally different people within a day and from one day to the next and are far more exposed as a result. Furthermore such people no doubt encounter antimaskers with regularity which (by my understanding) is not a risk teachers face.

But this: "I haven’t at any time suggested anyone should ‘stand back and allow teachers to be vaccinated first’". Can you explain in words I can understand how you can put the teachers to the forefront of the vaccination process without making others stand back.

If I am 75th in a queue waiting to talk to vodafone call centre, and a teacher wanted to have his phone sorted out as a priority, I would perforce slip to 76th if this request was acquiesced to, without "standing back". You simply cannot move someone up a priority list without moving someone back.

We’re entering into semantics GP. I may be wrong but while ‘first’ is indisputably at the front of any queue, what I meant by ‘forefront’ was ‘amongst those who should be given priority’.

I’ve now lost count of the number of times I thought I’d made clear that I would only anticipate the fit and healthy delaying for the sake of those who’s occupation places them at greater risk.

To add another perspective, I’ve just spoken to a former colleague where eight of his 25 staff have tested positive for Covid.

[Geoff Parkstone]

no need to waste vaccines there then!!

[Andy_Faber]

Can I rise above the inter-professional bickering here for a moment and just say FOUR HUNDRED AND FOUR**** THOUSAND vaccs administered today, bloody good effort again. Can we all at least celebrate that, unreservedly. In fact I challenge everyone to do so.

[ramAnag]

no need to waste vaccines there then!!

I give up. Arguably the most tasteless post ever made on here.

Perhaps if you gave that comment even a modicum more thought you might wish to retract.

[Trickytreesreds]

Can I rise above the inter-professional bickering here for a moment and just say FOUR HUNDRED AND FOUR**** THOUSAND vaccs administered today, bloody good effort again. Can we all at least celebrate that, unreservedly. In fact I challenge everyone to do so.

Quite right Andy,

Everyone, from the Tories(for other screw ups), technicians,NHS staff and volunteers who have pushed this along. Brilliant efforts.

I get mine next week as well. Happy bunny.

[swaledale]

I haven’t at any time suggested anyone should ‘stand back and allow teachers to be vaccinated first’.

I completely agree that those such as shop workers, hospital workers and transport workers are equally deserving and I’ve both made and acknowledged that point myself.

This part of the debate however is about the possibility of reopening schools by March 8th. It is my opinion that, for that to happen, teachers need to be in the forefront of the vaccination process.

Doubtless we can all make a case for a ‘preferred’ occupation to go to the front of the queue. I’m not actually engaging in a competition, simply making the point that very few have to actually share the same air as thirty(ish) others, in a confined environment, for an extended period of time in the way that teachers do.

You don’t agree...that’s fine too.

Its not that I don't agree, its and I have to say GP has correctly summarised this, if your argument is that for schools to open then teachers should be vaccinated, then someone else has to stand back to allow this.

All at risk workers can't be vaccinated at once, your not suggesting that shops, public transport etc. should stop until all those workers are vaccinated, so why is it different for schools, given that on assessed risk, teachers are not those most at risk?

Its not semantics RA, its practical considerations, only so many can be vaccinated, those at risk of death or serious illness are being done first. So to vaccinate all teachers before opening schools would mean that others at higher risk would have to take a step back. Thats the reality, one can't magic up vaccine, or people to undertake the vaccination from out of thin air.

I don't disagree that teachers should be in line to receive the vaccine earlier than others, and my understanding is that once those vulnerable due to age and/or health issues have had their first doe, then there is consideration being given to front line workers including teachers.

[MadAmster]

Over 400K in one day. That's twice what we've managed in total thus far.

Lots of in-fighting. Just over 200K done so far. Half a million in the cold store in Oss. 150K for new jabs. The other 350K are for the 2nd jabs for those already inocculated. Some docs pushing for using them all for 1st jabs and HOPE there is enough of a new supply for the 2nd jabs. Senior staff at Pharma firms saying keep to the 3 week interval......

[ramAnag]

Its not that I don't agree, its and I have to say GP has correctly summarised this, if your argument is that for schools to open then teachers should be vaccinated, then someone else has to stand back to allow this.

All at risk workers can't be vaccinated at once, your not suggesting that shops, public transport etc. should stop until all those workers are vaccinated, so why is it different for schools, given that on assessed risk, teachers are not those most at risk?

Its not semantics RA, its practical considerations, only so many can be vaccinated, those at risk of death or serious illness are being done first. So to vaccinate all teachers before opening schools would mean that others at higher risk would have to take a step back. Thats the reality, one can't magic up vaccine, or people to undertake the vaccination from out of thin air.

I don't disagree that teachers should be in line to receive the vaccine earlier than others, and my understanding is that once those vulnerable due to age and/or health issues have had their first doe, then there is consideration being given to front line workers including teachers.

Swale, although we disagree I appreciate the respectful tone of your argument.

Others are busy back slapping about the fact that over 414,000 were vaccinated yesterday which is, I agree, a great achievement.
I’m aware that this is an over simplification but there are approximately 945,000 people employed in schools of which around 440,000 are teachers. Is it really so much to ask for the likes of myself to delay a little while in order that those at the ‘sharp end’ are better protected?

I do also take on board your final paragraph and it is a very fair point which I largely agree with. Beyond that I really can see little point in me being part of this particular debate so long as there are comments being made such as GP’s stupidly offensive post #1004.