O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Geoff Parkstone]

You either can’t count (unlikely given your profession) or your kids went to unusual schools.
However, for the vast majority...it’s six weeks in summer, two weeks at Christmas, two weeks at Easter and three x 1 week half terms providing a total of 13 weeks and a far cry from your ‘16+’.

Teachers work ‘directed time’ of 1265 hours per year. As far as I remember, ‘directed time’ is what it suggests and includes contact time, staff meetings, parents’ evenings etc. It doesn’t usually take account of planning time, hours spent running games activities, lunchtime clubs, residential activities etc.
In each of my last twenty odd years of teaching for instance I ran at least one week, often 1.5, of residential activities which essentially meant working from 8.30 on Monday morning until 3.00 pm on Friday. I’m not claiming hero status...I enjoyed virtually every minute of it and it was immensely rewarding, but plenty of teachers do much the same and don’t get a penny extra for it.

P.S. I did also spend four years as a school governor.

The comment re governors was directed at MA.

I don't think anything odd about my boys' school, did usual national curriculum but did teach Saturday mornings as they took in a limited number of boarders.

1265 hours a year, or 105.5 hours a month.

Expressed differently that's almost 34 weeks of your typical 7.5 hour day equivalent. 18 weeks (90 days) non working time short of 52 weeks, as opposed to typically 28 days short (including Bank Holidays) for your regular worker.

Keep going, your making my case for me.

I appreciate that teachers will work beyond contracted hours, as do many employees in different industries.

[MadAmster]

Fatally flawed argument. If they get 16 weeks paid holiday then they would still be docked 1/260th because everyone else with 4 or 5 weeks paid holiday has 1/260th deducted for unpaid days off. A paid holiday day is just the same as working day for this purpose.

My wish for the day. People who haven't been school governors responsible for finance don't presume to know it all 😂😂

But at least rA didn't take the bait

But they don't get 16 weeks paid holiday! That's the point. They get a salary. Unpaid leave isn't based on a 48/52 week year. It's based on however many weeks the school is open which is what, 56 based on your thoughts, closer to 40 weeks in reality.

With regard to your last point..... stop feckin baiting.

[AdiSalisbury]

My wish for the day. That people who haven't worked as a teacher, actually bother to find out the facts about how much work a teacher does in the course of a year.

A teacher gets a salary. A fixed amount. If they take a day off in term time they get stopped (or used to at any rate) 1/260th of their salary. (5 days a week, 52 weeks a year). If they really got 16 weeks paid holiday a year and only worked 36, then a day off would cost them 1/180th of their salary (5 x 36).....

During term time, teachers (most of them in any case, there are a few who don't) work well in excess of 40 hours a week. They get no overtime payments for that extra work.

Take, for instance, the 6 week summer "holiday". It's not 6 weeks off for most teachers. After the last day of school there are still the odd things to be done. By the end of week 2 you've recovered from the rigours of the school year, some by the end of week 1. Then it's 2 or 3 weeks "proper" vacation and then you start the preparations for the new school year.

There's a lot wrong with this statement. But I think you guys have been too easy a catch today for GP without me additionally winding you up further with "real world" working time and salary protocols (although this in itself may do the job - sorry!).

Anyway, back on subject, my real boss (the wife) has her vaccine this Saturday, so things are still moving forward in the Salisbury Boris fan club household!

[ramAnag]

The comment re governors was directed at MA.

I don't think anything odd about my boys' school, did usual national curriculum but did teach Saturday mornings as they took in a limited number of boarders.

1265 hours a year, or 105.5 hours a month.

Expressed differently that's almost 34 weeks of your typical 7.5 hour day equivalent. 18 weeks (90 days) non working time short of 52 weeks, as opposed to typically 28 days short (including Bank Holidays) for your regular worker.

Keep going, your making my case for me.

I appreciate that teachers will work beyond contracted hours, as do many employees in different industries.

...and my comment re governors was directed at you, just to remind you that you’re not the only one with experience of being a school governor.

Not sure how I can be making your point for you. Your claim that teachers (other than those in the Public/Private sector) have 16+ hours of holiday per year was simply wrong and an attempt to mislead.

You seem to be confusing non ‘directed’ time with ‘non working’ time. It’s a common mistake amongst bean counters.

[Andy_Faber]

There's a lot wrong with this statement. But I think you guys have been too easy a catch today for GP without me additionally winding you up further with "real world" working time and salary protocols (although this in itself may do the job - sorry!).

Anyway, back on subject, my real boss (the wife) has her vaccine this Saturday, so things are still moving forward in the Salisbury Boris fan club household!

Yes, stir the pot Adi! One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, forget mere monetary reward, anyone who would contemplate 'teaching' a fif**** year old Me deserves a medal! Seriously though, there are so many pros, cons and different perspectives to this argument that it could run for years with no resolution. Have you even touched on state versus independant teaching?

Good for your wife Adi, mine (with the benefit of youth on her side) is still waiting for the call (or rather for the app to go live for her age group). The average daily number has slipped by 25% from its peak but its still going great guns

[Geoff Parkstone]

There's a lot wrong with this statement. But I think you guys have been too easy a catch today for GP without me additionally winding you up further with "real world" working time and salary protocols (although this in itself may do the job - sorry!).

Anyway, back on subject, my real boss (the wife) has her vaccine this Saturday, so things are still moving forward in the Salisbury Boris fan club household!

😊😊👍

[Geoff Parkstone]

...and my comment re governors was directed at you, just to remind you that you’re not the only one with experience of being a school governor.

Not sure how I can be making your point for you. Your claim that teachers (other than those in the Public/Private sector) have 16+ hours of holiday per year was simply wrong and an attempt to mislead.

You seem to be confusing non ‘directed’ time with ‘non working’ time. It’s a common mistake amongst bean counters.

I don't recall ever having mentioned 16 hours holiday!!

[ramAnag]

Yes, stir the pot Adi! One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, forget mere monetary reward, anyone who would contemplate 'teaching' a fif**** year old Me deserves a medal! Seriously though, there are so many pros, cons and different perspectives to this argument that it could run for years with no resolution.

You’re right, Andy...it’s a complex issue, but when someone tries to illustrate a point by citing teachers ‘squawking’ at having to give up some of their ‘16+’ weeks of holiday there is a need to identify that as ‘bollux’.

It made me laugh when I recently saw a careworn parent bemoaning the fact that she didn’t have the luxury of a teaching assistant to help her with home tutoring. She had two children to deal with...and they were both hers!

[Andy_Faber]

I don't recall ever having mentioned 16 hours holiday!!

I thought that was a bit tight by HMG

[ramAnag]

I don't recall ever having mentioned 16 hours holiday!!

Yep...my mistake, but as you know, I meant ‘16+ weeks’ and you were just wrong.