O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

You’re right, Andy...it’s a complex issue, but when someone tries to illustrate a point by citing teachers ‘squawking’ at having to give up some of their ‘16+’ weeks of holiday there is a need to identify that as ‘bollux’.

It made me laugh when I recently saw a careworn parent bemoaning the fact that she didn’t have the luxury of a teaching assistant to help her with home tutoring. She had two children to deal with...and they were both hers!

Apart from the usual tomfoolery I've kept out of this one simply because its too many-faceted to resolve.

One question I would ask is about the media specifically (especially TV) spin on the typical student. I won't repat my usual observations about demographics, but is it frustrating to you as an ex teacher that all students interviewed appear eloquent, well presented and determined to succeed little angels? Maybe things have changed but back in the day any reporter asking questions of most of my schoolmates would have got a gobfull and their car pinched at the very least.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Yep...my mistake, but as you know, I meant ‘16+ weeks’ and you were just wrong.

I have already explained how my kids had 18 weeks holiday per school year. I should know, I had to pay for the child care! As a child I had 16 weeks plus 3 x 3 day half terms. That may not have been the case in your schools but it was in mine

[ramAnag]

I have already explained how my kids had 18 weeks holiday per school year. I should know, I had to pay for the child care! As a child I had 16 weeks plus 3 x 3 day half terms. That may not have been the case in your schools but it was in mine

Going round in circles, GP and you now seem a tad confused about whether you’re talking 16+,17 or 18 weeks holiday for you and your children which makes me think you all went to Independent/Public school.

In the vast majority of schools, and all those in the State sector, the amount of holiday is 13 weeks.

F.A.O. AF...No.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Yes we all did but the boys' schol followed national curriculum but nonetheless had 18 weeks holiday inc half terms. I had 17 and a bit

[ramAnag]

So...at 1.31 you referred to ‘teachers’ having 16+ weeks of annual holiday.
At 6.46 that had changed to somewhere between 17 weeks plus four days and 18 weeks which you repeated at 7.43 while clarifying that you were only talking about those who work in the Independent/‘Public’/Private sector...i.e. approx. 6.5%.

The fact is that the vast majority of teachers (approx 93.5%) have 13 weeks annual holiday, a proportion of which will be spent on planning, and your glib talk of ‘teachers’ having 16+ weeks of annual holiday was simply designed to mislead.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think you'll find both 17w4d and 18w (personal experiences of school holiday lengths) in fact qualify as 16+ which in basic maths is any amount greater than 16.

You then reference directed hours of 1256, which equates to over 18 nornal non directed weeks ie potentially holiday but accept some of that time may be spent working

Now you say teachers "only" have 13 weeks holiday.

It doesn't really matter which number it is, most people get 4 or 5 weeks

[ramAnag]

I think you'll find both 17w4d and 18w (personal experiences of school holiday lengths) in fact qualify as 16+ which in basic maths is any amount greater than 16.

You then reference directed hours of 1256, which equates to over 18 nornal non directed weeks ie potentially holiday but accept some of that time may be spent working

Now you say teachers "only" have 13 weeks holiday.

It doesn't really matter which number it is, most people get 4 or 5 weeks

Not sure where I’ve used the word ‘only’, or that I’ve ever insinuated that teachers are hard done to.
I’ve also provided an example of where I, strictly speaking, worked a 103 hour week, but I accept that it’s no more indicative than your 16+ - 18 weeks of holiday.
The truth is that it is enormously difficult to quantify the work and hours that teachers put in.
As far as I remember, my grandchildren were costing something in excess of £25 each per day at nursery. On that basis teachers might, at the most simplistic level, be commanding wages of up to £750 per day or £3750 per week which, of course would be completely ridiculous, but does serve to illustrate how complex the question is.
The pandemic has also brought into sharp relief the extent to which society depends on schools, and therefore teachers, in order to function properly which is, of course, another consideration and one which I suspect you are likely to be deeply uncomfortable with.

[Andy_Faber]

Get a room guys

[Geoff Parkstone]

Not sure where I’ve used the word ‘only’, or that I’ve ever insinuated that teachers are hard done to.
I’ve also provided an example of where I, strictly speaking, worked a 103 hour week, but I accept that it’s no more indicative than your 16+ - 18 weeks of holiday.
The truth is that it is enormously difficult to quantify the work and hours that teachers put in.
As far as I remember, my grandchildren were costing something in excess of £25 each per day at nursery. On that basis teachers might, at the most simplistic level, be commanding wages of up to £750 per day or £3750 per week which, of course would be completely ridiculous, but does serve to illustrate how complex the question is.
The pandemic has also brought into sharp relief the extent to which society depends on schools, and therefore teachers, in order to function properly which is, of course, another consideration and one which I suspect you are likely to be deeply uncomfortable with.

OK, we are now in Room 247 of the Crown Plaza and

"The pandemic has also brought into sharp relief the extent to which society depends on schools, and therefore teachers, in order to function properly which is, of course, another consideration and one which I suspect you are likely to be deeply uncomfortable with."

The pandemic has brought into focus the extent that society relies on many key workers, not all of whose value is recognised, and indeed brought into focus how much our "brave new world" comprising two working parents relies on outsourcing domestic functions. I'm not at all uncomfortable with this as I believe that a critical assessment of our "thrown away" family values at the altar of dual incomes and high consumerism is long overdue. If covid triggers this then some good might come out of it.

But, much as with out long running debate on vax priorities, I dont see teachers as any more or less undervalued in society than other key workers. Much like binmen, cleaners, retail staff etc.

[ramAnag]

OK, we are now in Room 247 of the Crown Plaza and

"The pandemic has also brought into sharp relief the extent to which society depends on schools, and therefore teachers, in order to function properly which is, of course, another consideration and one which I suspect you are likely to be deeply uncomfortable with."

The pandemic has brought into focus the extent that society relies on many key workers, not all of whose value is recognised, and indeed brought into focus how much our "brave new world" comprising two working parents relies on outsourcing domestic functions. I'm not at all uncomfortable with this as I believe that a critical assessment of our "thrown away" family values at the altar of dual incomes and high consumerism is long overdue. If covid triggers this then some good might come out of it.

But, much as with out long running debate on vax priorities, I dont see teachers as any more or less undervalued in society than other key workers. Much like binmen, cleaners, retail staff etc.

I don’t believe I’ve ever said otherwise. You moved the debate from discussion over whether frontline NHS workers deserved more than a 1% rise to the subject of teachers working longer hours and using up their holidays to compensate for the teaching time lost to the pandemic over the last twelve months.

I’ve simply responded on a subject I am relatively knowledgeable about.

Your point about bin men, cleaners, retail staff is completely valid but my real argument has been over your assertion that teachers get ‘16+’ weeks ‘holiday’ per year. The vast majority get between 3+ and 5 weeks less than you’ve suggested.