O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

Agree with your whole post Swale but have quoted just the one paragraph and highlighted one clause.

That is precisely the reason I am still a "not yet". There are still no figures that I have been able to find thus far on how people with my physiology, my underlying conditions and my medicine use available. I'm not shy of the odd gamble but when it's my life I'm gambling with, I want more data to work with than there is currently available.

Kudos to those who have already bitten the bullet.

As you say, no medicine is risk free, paracetamol, aspirin and ibuprofen can have bad effects on some people yet they are taken by millions across the world. The difference between paracetamol and AZ/BionTech/Janssen/Moderna is that the former has been in use for decades and there is history. These vaccines are new and the data I want just isn't there. I'd hate my epitaph to be Covid didn't get him but AZ etc did........

To each their own but I'd hate my epitaph to be 'Covid got him but at least he didn't taka a vaccine'.

Listening to the pointy heads on tv this am (including rA's and my own favourite Fergus Walsh), and I'm surprised this wasn't investigated and made public earlier, the incidence of blood clots in the AZ vaccinated population is no different to that in the Pfizer vaccinated population. The EU panic is, to quote use a great word used last eve, 'baffling'.

[Geoff Parkstone]

As someone who is prescribed aspirin as a blood thinner, thus affording some clotting protection, I note they have nasty impact on stomach lining causing me to need a counteractive medication to reduce stomach acid production. This in turn leads to.....

My point is, every medication has an element of downside which can be dealt with by a further drug. This seems to be big pharma's business model to sustain growth. Rather like the theory that they have a cure for cancer but would lose so much money/sales if they released it, they won't do so.

But whilst there are potential consequences to any medication, they are generally no worse than the consequences of no medication

[MadAmster]

To each their own but I'd hate my epitaph to be 'Covid got him but at least he didn't taka a vaccine'.

Understand what you're saying Andy, however, I've managed to avoid the virus for a year now by being careful. I don't intend to do anything different in the coming months. They say past behaviour are the best predictor of future behaviour. I'm backing my own history at the moment.

Just to put your mind at rest, I've not said I'm not having it, just not yet.

[ramAnag]

There is no known thrombosis risk, and its not the government but medical regulators who are saying this, so rA we can't pin anything on the government, even if some side effect or other does arise from either the Az or Pfizer vaccines.

I’m not actually trying to ‘pin anything on the Government’, Swale. God knows we don’t want or need Covid to do that and I would love them to be successful.

I’m just uncomfortable with the idea of having to believe the likes of Johnson and Raab over something as important as vaccines when they’ve been shown to be incompetent at best, and downright liars at worst, over so many other issues.

Personally I loathe the ‘we’re alright Jack attitude’ that keeps resurfacing on here and throughout the country.
Having said that, there have, paradoxically, been some wise if contradictory words written on here, from MA’s very personal but totally reasonable reservations, to GP’s closing comment, that the ‘...potential consequences of any medication are generally no worse than the consequences of no medication’, both of which I can sympathise with.

[Trickytreesreds]

Baffling doesn't even cover it.
The EU is determined to tear itself apart over stuff like this.
Listen to virologist Simon Clarke on talkradio.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-eu-parliament

[swaledale]

Agree with your whole post Swale but have quoted just the one paragraph and highlighted one clause.

That is precisely the reason I am still a "not yet". There are still no figures that I have been able to find thus far on how people with my physiology, my underlying conditions and my medicine use available. I'm not shy of the odd gamble but when it's my life I'm gambling with, I want more data to work with than there is currently available.

Kudos to those who have already bitten the bullet.

As you say, no medicine is risk free, paracetamol, aspirin and ibuprofen can have bad effects on some people yet they are taken by millions across the world. The difference between paracetamol and AZ/BionTech/Janssen/Moderna is that the former has been in use for decades and there is history. These vaccines are new and the data I want just isn't there. I'd hate my epitaph to be Covid didn't get him but AZ etc did........

I don't disagree with your approach, however whilst the vaccines are new, they are based on pre existing vaccines that have been used widely before, so the chances of ill effects are very small. I doubt that the data covering all effects of the current vaccines will be available for years, though obviously its incremental process, personally I've had the Pfizer jab, not that there was a choice.

You assessment of keeping Covid free is fine, but to me unless you isolate yourself from every external contact, there is no way of knowing whether you will come into contact with a person infected who has no symptoms and I don't see the point of living life like a hermit for the next couple of years.

[macstheman]

A German MEP acknowledged on BBC News earlier that, following the row with AZ over supplies of their vaccine, there is an element of politicising over the suspension of its' usage! In addition she said that it's likely that the AZ Vaccine will be ultimately phased out in favour of Pfizer! When asked 'why' when statistics showed little difference between the two she waffled!
It seems that Macron and co are seeking revenge! To me, it's up to them if killing some of their population justifies tit for tat tactics!

[MadAmster]

Follow the money. AZ sells at cost. Pfizer costs 6 times that. Can't have the poor old shareholders missing out on all that lovely dividend can we?

As for the number of thrombosis cases..... AZ has less than Pfizer. In the AZ tests, those with the vaccine had fewer instances of thrombosis than those who had the placebo. Both AZ and Pfizer show a lower instance of cases than occurs naturally among the non-vaccinated...... IMO if it isn't the money then it's political.

[swaledale]

Follow the money. AZ sells at cost. Pfizer costs 6 times that. Can't have the poor old shareholders missing out on all that lovely dividend can we?

As for the number of thrombosis cases..... AZ has less than Pfizer. In the AZ tests, those with the vaccine had fewer instances of thrombosis than those who had the placebo. Both AZ and Pfizer show a lower instance of cases than occurs naturally among the non-vaccinated...... IMO if it isn't the money then it's political.

Politicians trying to make capital out of a pandemic because another country has done better with vaccinations? Never thought I'd see the day!

[Trickytreesreds]

Today Nicola Magrini, who runs Italian medicines regulator AIFA, said politicians in were pressured to ban the Covid jabs after Germany and France did.

Mr Magrini told La Repubblica: "We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks.

'BREXIT SULK'
"The choice is a political one."

French Europe Minister Clement Beaune admitted the suspension heaped "political pressure" on AstraZeneca amid the ongoing supply dispute.

He told Radio Classique: "There are concerns. And more than that, probably a number of breaches of contract.

“Europe is not going to be some sort of cuddly 'care bear' that hands over its money and expects nothing in return.

“We will defend our interests. There may be legal recourse. We are not ruling it out.”

Mr Beaune also said the EU “must put pressure” on AstraZeneca to force it to deliver more doses to the bloc even as millions lie unused in fridges.

He said: “We are stronger among Europeans than if France did it alone.

"Before any legal recourse, there is political pressure, or even the board of directors, internally in the company.”