O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think he's right

[Trickytreesreds]

According to Boris Johnson the ‘success of the vaccine’ is down to capitalism and greed. Not only that but apparently, ‘greed is good’.
What a complete tool we have as PM.

Never been offered a "bonus" then to increase your productivity?

You really have lead a sheltered life haven't you?

[swaledale]

I think he's right

Your entitled to your opinion, but your wrong!

For a start he quickly back tracked on that comment and attributing Britain’s mass vaccination triumph to “greed” and “capitalism” is factually incorrect. According to the British Medical Journal the AstraZeneca vaccine “was originally discovered by Oxford’s Jenner Institute and has received more than a billion pounds of public money”. AstraZeneca was involved in trials and manufacture, but it took no financial risks: as it stated last year, “expenses to progress the vaccine are anticipated to be offset by funding by governments”.

The vaccine programme is being delivered successfully via our state-run National Health Service, while the country’s test-and-trace system has made “no clear impact”, despite private consultants charging up to £6,250 a day.

There is a myth that says private sector good, public sector bad, given that the private sector would not exist if it wasn't for publicly funded education, health, police, roads, railways plus the various grants and funding that the private sector is only to eager to get its hands on.

Having experienced and been involved in many privatisations, in many though not all cases, private firms were able to takeover public contracts by paying lower wages with far worse terms and conditions (not of course for the upper managers, but certainly for those doing the actual work). Witness the current scandal of online catch up tuition being operated out of Sri Lanka and India by low paid 17 and 18 year olds.

The fact is for some things the private sector is better and for others the public sector is better.

Capitalism and the current economic model certainly improved things but greed and capitalism certainly doesn't look long term, consider the wider interests of people or the environment and there as many failures as successes.

[Andy_Faber]

Moving the discussion on, what's y'all's view on vaccine passports and the possible need to show them to get access to some of the things we once took for granted?

My opinion is that the rights of people not to be poisoned with Covid, a mass killer, in a public place by an anti vaxer trumps the rights of anti vaxers to decline their jab with a vaccine with a nil to diminishingly small death rate. 'Anti vaxers' IMO includes the cautious, the I know better brigade and (to avoid another spat) religious and ethical nutters. All respect for their choice of course.

Two problems - how to allow for those who GENUINELY can't take it (there are a few conditions ie takers of Warfarin for example) to show they are exempt, and how to police it

My expectation is that legislation will be passed so that entities that CAN enforce it (airlines for instance) WILL enforce it, those that can't will either do limited control or won't do it at all

Anyone?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think the key is to differentiate between CANT and WONT. Can't is for certified medical reasons, anything else is won't.

The can't group should not be debarred from pubs, clubs events etc as the incidence of covid will be diminished by then and the majority exposed to a non vaxxer will have been vaxxed. The can't non vaxxer knows the risks and if they get covid, it's their own fault.

The won't group should in effect become ostracised, their choice not to Vax, society's choice to restrict them. A bit like conscientious objectors during war. If they chose not to respect societal norms, then societal privileges go too.

Harsh but this is not a game, it's life and death

[Andy_Faber]

I think the key is to differentiate between CANT and WONT. Can't is for certified medical reasons, anything else is won't.

The can't group should not be debarred from pubs, clubs events etc as the incidence of covid will be diminished by then and the majority exposed to a non vaxxer will have been vaxxed. The can't non vaxxer knows the risks and if they get covid, it's their own fault.

The won't group should in effect become ostracised, their choice not to Vax, society's choice to restrict them. A bit like conscientious objectors during war. If they chose not to respect societal norms, then societal privileges go too.

Harsh but this is not a game, it's life and death

Well put.

Goes back to a phrase I use often, 'help those who can't help themselves, not those who won't help themselves'

[swaledale]

Well put.

Goes back to a phrase I use often, 'help those who can't help themselves, not those who won't help themselves'

Expensive to administer (billions of £'s), prone to failure and fraud, expensive for the venues to operate, a pointless idea which is expensive and frankly over the top approach to the issue.

I note that many venue managers are saying that it would be expensive and impractical to administer and given that those vaccinated would be protected by the vaccination, what's the objective and where is the evidence that it would be effective? Having exemptions seems to me counter productive, if you can't get in because you haven't had the vaccination letting in those with exemptions makes the exercise pointless.

Spend the money on education, getting the vaccine to people and improving the safeguards that actually enable life to go on. But I've no doubt that the numpties in this awful Government will see it as useful window dressing to give people false confidence and like sheep many will believe its a reasonable solution.

My approach will be simple, anywhere that demands or operates this approach won't be getting my money, simples!

[ramAnag]

I think the key is to differentiate between CANT and WONT. Can't is for certified medical reasons, anything else is won't.

The can't group should not be debarred from pubs, clubs events etc as the incidence of covid will be diminished by then and the majority exposed to a non vaxxer will have been vaxxed. The can't non vaxxer knows the risks and if they get covid, it's their own fault.

The won't group should in effect become ostracised, their choice not to Vax, society's choice to restrict them. A bit like conscientious objectors during war. If they chose novt to respect societal norms, then societal privileges go too.

Harsh but this is not a game, it's life and death

Wow...what a contrast. Completely agree with the first two paragraphs. Couldn’t disagree more with the ‘conscientious objectors’ bit...there is absolutely no comparison...but then I suspect you know that.

[Andy_Faber]

Expensive to administer (billions of £'s), prone to failure and fraud, expensive for the venues to operate, a pointless idea which is expensive and frankly over the top approach to the issue.

I note that many venue managers are saying that it would be expensive and impractical to administer and given that those vaccinated would be protected by the vaccination, what's the objective and where is the evidence that it would be effective? Having exemptions seems to me counter productive, if you can't get in because you haven't had the vaccination letting in those with exemptions makes the exercise pointless.

Spend the money on education, getting the vaccine to people and improving the safeguards that actually enable life to go on. But I've no doubt that the numpties in this awful Government will see it as useful window dressing to give people false confidence and like sheep many will believe its a reasonable solution.

My approach will be simple, anywhere that demands or operates this approach won't be getting my money, simples!

I think you’ve confused (or have you conflated? That’s the latest buzzword) my personal opinion of what I’d like to see with what I think will actually happen (in an earlier post). Your comment on education has got to be the biggest joke you’ve ever told, arseholes think they know better than the educators’ and give up on this ‘getting vaccines to people’ mullarkey, there were two experts on the radio this morning who put forward the point I’ve been making that it’s no longer a question of making folk aware the vaccine is available, there are other things at play and their time would be better spent jabbing the willing than begging the unwilling.

Your last paragraph gives us all hope though

[Andy_Faber]

Wow...what a contrast. Completely agree with the first two paragraphs. Couldn’t disagree more with the ‘conscientious objectors’ bit...there is absolutely no comparison...but then I suspect you know that.

I think that was a bit OTT too, agree with the rest of GPS post though but it will all be a bugger to administer