O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

the Tory Party has to recognise the failings of the current leadership if it is to retain any credibility in terms of morality and integrity.

I'm not sure it does rA, and that's again an observation. I think BJ's buffoonery is already baked into the proletariat's collective views.

[ramAnag]

I think BJ's buffoonery is already baked into the proletariat's collective views.

I’m not even sure what that means, but I’m not talking about his ‘buffoonery’, I’m talking about his alleged dishonesty and incompetence.

If that doesn’t matter and is okay with you and Tricky, fine...that’s your opinion...just don’t be surprised when the rest of society starts following suit and honesty and integrity are things from the past because of the examples set at the top.

Tricky...you used to spend half your time on here referring to ‘Tony Bliar’. It wasn’t okay then and no one made more fuss than you, but now apparently...`only voters opinions matter’. Not much space for truth in your world then?

[Trickytreesreds]

I’m not even sure what that means, but I’m not talking about his ‘buffoonery’, I’m talking about his alleged dishonesty and incompetence.

If that doesn’t matter and is okay with you and Tricky, fine...that’s your opinion...just don’t be surprised when the rest of society starts following suit and honesty and integrity are things from the past because of the examples set at the top.

Tricky...you used to spend half your time on here referring to ‘Tony Bliar’. It wasn’t okay then and no one made more fuss than you, but now apparently...`only voters opinions matter’. Not much space for truth in your world then?

No you#ve read that wrong. The voters opinion matters on vote day. Blairs lies went off the scale and he paid for it.
In fact Bliars lies and culture regressed the Labour party by 20 years eventually. The same could happen with the Tories. The voters decide.
Of course, this should be an open door for Starmer, but it hasn't been that way by far.
At the moment, no one cares enough.
The public are sick to death of lies and the manipulation of voters. I'd have thought the Brexit back lash would have taught you that.

Everytime the Tories go out of line, Sir Nigel has rattled them enough to fall into line.
What's Labour done to bring them into voter line?

[ramAnag]

No you#ve read that wrong. The voters opinion matters on vote day. Blairs lies went off the scale and he paid for it.
In fact Bliars lies and culture regressed the Labour party by 20 years eventually. The same could happen with the Tories. The voters decide.
Of course, this should be an open door for Starmer, but it hasn't been that way by far.
At the moment, no one cares enough.
The public are sick to death of lies and the manipulation of voters. I'd have thought the Brexit back lash would have taught you that.

Everytime the Tories go out of line, Sir Nigel has rattled them enough to fall into line.
What's Labour done to bring them into voter line?

You’re right of course about Blair’s lies. Sad really...the best PM of my lifetime (imo) paid the price for a single set of enormous lies...but at least I accept that.

How many ‘cases’ has Johnson got going on at the moment? How many times does he have to be exposed before you accept his unsuitability to lead?

As for ‘Sir Nigel’...well he’d know all about the ‘manipulation of voters’ and the importance of ‘voter opinion’, after all, at the risk of cross threading, his attempts to become an elected MP were very reminiscent of the UK’s recent performances at Eurovision. What’s he doing this week...trying to attract investment in gold on a weird website or reinventing himself in the US again in front of an audience of 21!

It seems more a case of the ‘Emperor’s new clothes’ than the ‘King of Europe’...time he got a proper job.

[Andy_Faber]

I’m not even sure what that means, but I’m not talking about his ‘buffoonery’, I’m talking about his alleged dishonesty and incompetence.

If that doesn’t matter and is okay with you and Tricky, fine...that’s your opinion...just don’t be surprised when the rest of society starts following suit and honesty and integrity are things from the past because of the examples set at the top.

Sorry my usual semi flippant summary gets in the way, yes I include dishonesty and lack of competence in this. However, I think Mr and Mrs Average, who (we've discussed this before) yesterday paid for some building work 'cash' will forgive a bit of dishonesty, and who followed that up by arriving at the shops later in the day without their wallet/purse will forgive a bit of incompetence.

Believe me , I have no time for people who rise up an organisation based on appealling character traits (sorry but BJ does have) rather than ability to do the job, after personally suffering from same in the business world, I see it that folk are looking at delivery first, and amongst all the chaos the Conservatives have delivered on two massive, marketable items - Brexit (even if it is a self-inflicted wound, I make to judgement) and the vaccine rollout (even if its actually thanks to a handful of buyers and an army of volunteers) and the voters like that

Meanwhile, Her Majesty's opposition should have been absolutely tearing into BJ and Matt Hancock for (what I DO see as) failings as accused by Cummings, yet their spokeswoman the other night (Diane Abbott) chose to focus instead on justifying her description of the black-on-black shooting of Sasha Johnson as a race crime. Bigger own goal miss than Ronnie Rosenthal at Villa '92

[ramAnag]

Sorry my usual semi flippant summary gets in the way, yes I include dishonesty and lack of competence in this. However, I think Mr and Mrs Average, who (we've discussed this before) yesterday paid for some building work 'cash' will forgive a bit of dishonesty, and who followed that up by arriving at the shops later in the day without their wallet/purse will forgive a bit of incompetence.

Believe me , I have no time for people who rise up an organisation based on appealling character traits (sorry but BJ does have) rather than ability to do the job, after personally suffering from same in the business world, I see it that folk are looking at delivery first, and amongst all the chaos the Conservatives have delivered on two massive, marketable items - Brexit (even if it is a self-inflicted wound, I make to judgement) and the vaccine rollout (even if its actually thanks to a handful of buyers and an army of volunteers) and the voters like that

Meanwhile, Her Majesty's opposition should have been absolutely tearing into BJ and Matt Hancock for (what I DO see as) failings as accused by Cummings, yet their spokeswoman the other night (Diane Abbott) chose to focus instead on justifying her description of the black-on-black shooting of Sasha Johnson as a race crime. Bigger own goal miss than Ronnie Rosenthal at Villa '92

‘Appealing character traits’? Really? Care to elaborate?

The ability of the opposition is irrelevant. This is Thatcher Mk2...when you are in Government with a huge majority there’s actually very little any opposition can do. Maintaining control of Parliament becomes easy, but...the failings of Government are exactly that, and moaning about the opposition, including DA who coincidentally also has a huge majority (35,000+), is just another ‘red herring’.

[Andy_Faber]

‘Appealing character traits’? Really? Care to elaborate?

The ability of the opposition is irrelevant. This is Thatcher Mk2...when you are in Government with a huge majority there’s actually very little any opposition can do. Maintaining control of Parliament becomes easy, but...the failings of Government are exactly that, and moaning about the opposition, including DA who coincidentally also has a huge majority (35,000+), is just another ‘red herring’.

I can elaborate although I can't explain because I don't personally find them appealling - his occasional bumbling delivery, his shambolic hair and never-quite-fitting suits, his occasional inappropriate comments, even his apparent ability to wriggle out of awkward situations like calling Muslim women names and not knowing who paid for his refurb - regretably rA they make him MORE appealing to enough of the electorate, that same electorate who ain't perfect themselves, to make a difference. Same with Farage. There's just something 'in the air' around both that make them liked. Poor old Starmer, to my eyes a decent bloke, stands no chance in comparison, with no personality and a wooden delivery.

[ramAnag]

I can elaborate although I can't explain because I don't personally find them appealling - his occasional bumbling delivery, his shambolic hair and never-quite-fitting suits, his occasional inappropriate comments, even his apparent ability to wriggle out of awkward situations like calling Muslim women names and not knowing who paid for his refurb - regretably rA they make him MORE appealing to enough of the electorate, that same electorate who ain't perfect themselves, to make a difference. Same with Farage. There's just something 'in the air' around both that make them liked. Poor old Starmer, to my eyes a decent bloke, stands no chance in comparison, with no personality and a wooden delivery.

So slightly right of centre you, and slightly left of centre me don’t find him at all ‘appealing’ but somehow this ‘awkward’ and ‘bumbling’ incompetent who looks as if he struggles to dress himself has, along with ‘Nasty Nigel’, tapped into something ‘in the air’.
What an indictment of the UK electorate.

Truth is, I suspect, both Farage and Johnson have tapped into a time when they were up against the most discredited opposition leader (Corbyn) I can remember, and have recognised the appeal of simplistic populism. The former didn’t achieve his ultimate aim and is now a busted flush pimping himself around in any new attempt to find a new ‘fund Farage’s lifestyle’ activity/Party. The latter is, for the time being, riding the crest of the vaccine roll out wave. His huge majority allows him to get away with a great deal...but it is, imo, only for the time being and he will be found out.

[Andy_Faber]

So slightly right of centre you, and slightly left of centre me don’t find him at all ‘appealing’ but somehow this ‘awkward’ and ‘bumbling’ incompetent who looks as if he struggles to dress himself has, along with ‘Nasty Nigel’, tapped into something ‘in the air’.
What an indictment of the UK electorate.

Truth is, I suspect, both Farage and Johnson have tapped into a time when they were up against the most discredited opposition leader (Corbyn) I can remember, and have recognised the appeal of simplistic populism. The former didn’t achieve his ultimate aim and is now a busted flush pimping himself around in any new attempt to find a new ‘fund Farage’s lifestyle’ activity/Party. The latter is, for the time being, riding the crest of the vaccine roll out wave. His huge majority allows him to get away with a great deal...but it is, imo, only for the time being and he will be found out.

We only disagree on one thing, I don’t think he will be ‘found out’ because he already has and, going back to my earlier comment, I think his behaviour has already been factored in by the electorate. I take your point of simplistic populism but it’s catching on the world over, and I get the feeling they are reacting with policy tweaks to some of the opinion polls doing the rounds - compulsory vaccinations for health staff being the latest one, public opinion being in the mid 90%s in favour.

[ramAnag]

We only disagree on one thing, I don’t think he will be ‘found out’ because he already has and, going back to my earlier comment, I think his behaviour has already been factored in by the electorate. I take your point of simplistic populism but it’s catching on the world over, and I get the feeling they are reacting with policy tweaks to some of the opinion polls doing the rounds - compulsory vaccinations for health staff being the latest one, public opinion being in the mid 90%s in favour.

Maybe...but let’s face it no one, including me, expected Trump to be ‘seen off’ in quite the way he was...so things can change quickly.

If I was working for the NHS I have to admit I’d want the vaccine ASAP, but I’m not sure how popular it would be to ‘demonise’ hospital staff who don’t want it, especially when they are putting themselves at risk more than anyone else.

Hopefully only a matter of time until common sense and decency take priority over half baked populist nonsense.