O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Trickytreesreds]

MA you are in the same boat as I.
We are weak in many ways, but to say COVID is the be all and end all is wrong. There is so many ailments out there that can do the same job.
No matter how scoffed the figures I gave out were, 17,000 have died from COVID alone, with NO AILMENTS.
COVID is the final nail.
So is it deadly? No it isn't to most people.
The problem has been that it is new and highly infectious.
Has this warrented all the hysteria around it? In my opinion , no it hasn't. Steps/measures shoudl always have been applied to prtotect the vulnerable and vaccinate as many as possible across the board.

Pre COVID, 166, 000 in the UK died every year from cancer alone.
Since these panic measure, the examinations/diagnosis/treatment/surgery has fallen off dramatcally
This time bomb will become apparent inside 5-10 years and make covid look like a hiccup.
AND THAT IS JUST CANCER.

I'll say it again, the average age of COVID recorded deaths is 82(that meets your expected life span anyway. ) How many 90 year olds were in that, to get an average that high?

BTW way, if you are really that worried, should you really be doing things like mixing with footballers, who probably being younger, have dodged vaccination?

[MadAmster]

TTR thanks for the concern. Here in NL we have about 85% uptake in 20 to 35 year olds of the first 2 doses. More than 90% of all adults are double jabbed. They're reasonable odds IMO.

[ramAnag]

C’mon Tricky...that post is a virtual replica of the one you posted last week...and you’re right that the impact of Covid upon people with other serious health conditions, including Cancer, is both significant and tragic.

Having said that, in relation to your 17,000 figure - which personally I find ridiculous - MA makes an enormously important point when he asks how many of the elderly and those with underlying health conditions would still be alive were it not for Covid?

I think everyone will agree with your point about cancer treatments being hit hard by the pandemic, but likewise we cannot abandon concern for those who will suffer significantly and possibly terminally as a result of the pandemic simply because they are elderly or have other long term health problems.

The answer, if there is one, is surely to reverse the cuts we have seen over the last decade and have a properly funded health service...you know...as was promised on the side of a certain Brexit bus.

[Geoff Parkstone]

rA: "C’mon Tricky...that post is a virtual replica of the one you posted last week..."

"The answer, if there is one, is surely to reverse the cuts we have seen over the last decade and have a properly funded health service...you know...as was promised on the side of a certain Brexit bus."

.......and you have the gall to call out Tricky for posting a virtual replica post, when you must have replicated the second quoted element above well over 100 times on the two politico-threads.

"Physician heal thyself" might be a curiously appropriate epithet

[ramAnag]

rA: "C’mon Tricky...that post is a virtual replica of the one you posted last week..."

"The answer, if there is one, is surely to reverse the cuts we have seen over the last decade and have a properly funded health service...you know...as was promised on the side of a certain Brexit bus."

.......and you have the gall to call out Tricky for posting a virtual replica post, when you must have replicated the second quoted element above well over 100 times on the two politico-threads.

"Physician heal thyself" might be a curiously appropriate epithet

Hmmm...not at all sure about the accuracy of that...but you’re the one who likes counting. Go ahead, I have better things to do.

I’m actually agreeing with Tricky, for once, just saying he needs to blame cuts rather than the sick and the elderly being more prone to death via Covid.

Then again he’s the one essentially saying the life of a young cancer sufferer is worth more than that of an elderly (define that if you can!) Covid sufferer...or perhaps even a young cancer sufferer who has developed Covid.

It’s enormously complicated...takes us well into the midst of the moral and ethical maze. One which, imo, Tricky is trying to oversimplify.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Agreed its an impossible moral maze where you have to value lives one against the other. The clear economic advantage in repairing younger broken units that can still earn and contribute, as opposed to repairing broken units that are actually an economic burden on the state, is all too plain to see. But even my flawed moral compass, as you would have it, finds a difficulty in promoting such a solution. Especially as I grow nearer to that tipping point between between being a contributor and a taker!

You're already there, so I guess your preference is more toward repairing the non contributing units

Brings us back to Soylent Green territory

[MadAmster]

It's only about 3 months ago that the Dutch HS came out and said that, if cases Covid related hospital/ICU admissions didn't start a downward trend inside 3 or 4 days maximum we would be in "code black". That would have meant that, if a hospital had 1 bed left and 2 people arrived simultaneously, the doctors would have to "play God" and decide which patient they would try to save and which one would be left to their own devices if a bed couldn't be found elsewhere.

Not a role Dutch docs want to play.

[ramAnag]

Agreed its an impossible moral maze where you have to value lives one against the other. The clear economic advantage in repairing younger broken units that can still earn and contribute, as opposed to repairing broken units that are actually an economic burden on the state, is all too plain to see. But even my flawed moral compass, as you would have it, finds a difficulty in promoting such a solution. Especially as I grow nearer to that tipping point between between being a contributor and a taker!

You're already there, so I guess your preference is more toward repairing the non contributing units

Brings us back to Soylent Green territory

As you know, GP, I do respect your knowledge of economics. Unfortunately so long as you just look at people as commodities...as ‘units that can earn and contribute’...your moral compass isn’t just ‘flawed’...it’s completely broken.

[Trickytreesreds]

Hmmm...not at all sure about the accuracy of that...but you’re the one who likes counting. Go ahead, I have better things to do.

I’m actually agreeing with Tricky, for once, just saying he needs to blame cuts rather than the sick and the elderly being more prone to death via Covid.

Then again he’s the one essentially saying the life of a young cancer sufferer is worth more than that of an elderly (define that if you can!) Covid sufferer...or perhaps even a young cancer sufferer who has developed Covid.

It’s enormously complicated...takes us well into the midst of the moral and ethical maze. One which, imo, Tricky is trying to oversimplify.

I don't know about over simpltfy RA, but the reality of it is for me.
The human body dies. No dodging it or avoiding it. It's like governments will always tax you and being a Derby fan means you have nits and scabes

If COVID is killing an average age of 82, what really has changed?
Even the bible states that man shalt live for 3 score and 10

Yes it is a threat to the elderly, but so so many things are.
Can you possibly tell me the death rates from flu in the last 2 years please?

I'll bet you can't. The figures seem to be well hidden.

However heres 2019

Influenza and Pneumonia
Country 2018 2019
Total mortality 29,516 26,398
England 27,142 24,400
Wales 2,309 1,942
England and Wales 29,451 26,342
Resident outside England and Wales 65 56

We qualify for flu jabs in this country and as far as I know, the elderly all have them.
They STILL DIE!

The lock down days have gone for me. Jabs/ hygiene- is about all you've got left.
Either that, or accept a massive rise in deaths from other causes.

[MadAmster]

TTR, that massive rise in deaths from other causes is a given me owd. The reasons?

1. Diagnosed cancers that haven't been treated for 2 years
2. Cancers that haven't been diagnosed because people haven't been checked so their cancers aren't being treated
3. Heart problems not treated for 2 years
4. Heart issues that haven't been diagnosed because people haven't been checked so their hearts aren't being treated

wash, rinse and repeat with lung, kidney, brain, prostate etc..... there already is a huge backlog of people who will die in the near future because they haven't been able to access diagnosis and/or treatment for the past 2 years.