O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[swaledale]

I couldn’t agree more.
The thread though is entitled ‘The government’s handling of Covid’ and in certain quarters any criticism is immediately identified as just more Johnson/Tory bashing.
It isn’t, although God knows there’s been enough justification, but...specifically on topic, and in direct reference to your final two sentences...doesn’t the fact that we are no longer presented with any sort of clear and meaningful strategy mean that the current ‘handling of Covid’ simply isn’t very good?

It isn't and it hasn't been very good. From Johnson going round shaking hands and trying to make it seem like flu and then ending up in intensive care - not sure flu does that to most healthy people! - to last summers desperate attempt to appear normal before the inevitable third etc waves, to now when the policy seems if we ignore it and pretend its not there, it will go away.

The truth is they have never followed the science, any science, had disposed of the UK's PPE reserve mere months before the pandemic hit and ignored the advice of the people they employed to plan for pandemics months before one actually happened.

But then its clear, this lot put power and their own interests above everything else and still there are the sheeple who follow them, unbelievable but there it is.

[MadAmster]

It isn't and it hasn't been very good. From Johnson going round shaking hands and trying to make it seem like flu and then ending up in intensive care - not sure flu does that to most healthy people! - to last summers desperate attempt to appear normal before the inevitable third etc waves, to now when the policy seems if we ignore it and pretend its not there, it will go away.

The truth is they have never followed the science, any science, had disposed of the UK's PPE reserve mere months before the pandemic hit and ignored the advice of the people they employed to plan for pandemics months before one actually happened.

But then its clear, this lot put power and their own interests above everything else and still there are the sheeple who follow them, unbelievable but there it is.

Despite all that, despite all the scams their friends made billion from, the app that never worked which cost tens of millions and that went to a firm where Cummings sister has a top role yet the Irish built one for 850K and offered it to NoJo, track and trace which cost tens of billions yet the Germans, whose population is 20M higher than the UK's did it for ONE billion

Despite the entire Brexit fiasco where businesses are in trouble and a lot have moved abroad, there is a de facto border in the Irish Sea.... none of which would have been necessary had the UK remained in the internal market and customs union, they will still get in at the next election.

I fully expect that Scottish independence is no longer a question of if but when, Westminster will be in all sorts of financial problems to the tune of about 40Bn a year. Scots will do very well out of it all.

[ramAnag]

Despite all that, despite all the scams their friends made billion from, the app that never worked which cost tens of millions and that went to a firm where Cummings sister has a top role yet the Irish built one for 850K and offered it to NoJo, track and trace which cost tens of billions yet the Germans, whose population is 20M higher than the UK's did it for ONE billion

Despite the entire Brexit fiasco where businesses are in trouble and a lot have moved abroad, there is a de facto border in the Irish Sea.... none of which would have been necessary had the UK remained in the internal market and customs union, they will still get in at the next election.

I’m not so pessimistic, MA. Labour are no longer hamstrung by the electoral liability that the press, rightly or wrongly, portrayed Corbyn to be and even the most one eyed of Tory supporters must by now have recognised Johnson to be the dishonest, bumbling and self serving incompetent that some of us have suggested all along.

The alternatives...Truss, Gove, Raab and Sunak...have hardly covered themselves in glory recently, indeed they’re probably four of the reasons that Johnson remains in post, and there really is going to have to be some sort of ‘miracle’ if the Tories are to win next time round.

Hopefully the single most dangerous and damaging man in the country (Farage) and his sinister financial backers will now keep their noses out after the disaster that is Brexit and I foresee a coalition at worst.

[swaledale]

I’m not so pessimistic, MA. Labour are no longer hamstrung by the electoral liability that the press, rightly or wrongly, portrayed Corbyn to be and even the most one eyed of Tory supporters must by now have recognised Johnson to be the dishonest, bumbling and self serving incompetent that some of us have suggested all along.

The alternatives...Truss, Gove, Raab and Sunak...have hardly covered themselves in glory recently, indeed they’re probably four of the reasons that Johnson remains in post, and there really is going to have to be some sort of ‘miracle’ if the Tories are to win next time round.

Hopefully the single most dangerous and damaging man in the country (Farage) and his sinister financial backers will now keep their noses out after the disaster that is Brexit and I foresee a coalition at worst.

I love your optimism rA, BUT - it could well be something that isn't de facto the fault of the Tory party, i.e. the cost of living that ****s them, though of course Sunak's tone death response to it so far hasn't helped.

Though I'd like to believe Starmer has some trick up his sleeve, I fear, that competent and sensible he might be, he favours a Blair lite approach which will not be popular with voters under 30.

Labour realy needs to hammer home what a disaster Brexit is, whilst clearly re-joining the EU isn't an option, getting back in the customs union and single market clearly is and urgently required if the Uk is to recover.

As for farage, well he is already taking up the attack on net zero as his next cause, but that may well rebound on him badly.

[Trickytreesreds]

As for farage, well he is already taking up the attack on net zero as his next cause, but that may well rebound on him badly.

Not sure the country will agree with that line.

I have seen many debates now on line, calling for the same thing.

1. The house holds getting strangled with energy bills
2. The industries getting strangled with energy costs.

The current energy costs are ridiculous.
Whilst green may be the aim, what is the point if the economy collapses and folks freeze to death?

In fact the way its going, the energy costs could kill more pensioners than any COVID bug to date.

[ramAnag]

I love your optimism rA, BUT - it could well be something that isn't de facto the fault of the Tory party, i.e. the cost of living that ****s them, though of course Sunak's tone death response to it so far hasn't helped.

Though I'd like to believe Starmer has some trick up his sleeve, I fear, that competent and sensible he might be, he favours a Blair lite approach which will not be popular with voters under 30.

Labour realy needs to hammer home what a disaster Brexit is, whilst clearly re-joining the EU isn't an option, getting back in the customs union and single market clearly is and urgently required if the Uk is to recover.

As for farage, well he is already taking up the attack on net zero as his next cause, but that may well rebound on him badly.

Not disagreeing with any of that, Swale...just with MA’s untypical pessimism.
Even a slim Tory majority would be a massive improvement on what we have now which was always going to happen when the Little Englanders took over the Tory party with their blend of delusion and selfishness and circumstances then provided them with a huge majority.
Things can only get better. Eventually!

[swaledale]

Not disagreeing with any of that, Swale...just with MA’s untypical pessimism.
Even a slim Tory majority would be a massive improvement on what we have now which was always going to happen when the Little Englanders took over the Tory party with their blend of delusion and selfishness and circumstances then provided them with a huge majority.
Things can only get better. Eventually!

OR they could get a lot worse! Still plenty of Little Englanders around, though they might not be so keen when they see that domestic energy rises 455 in the Uk and 5% in france!!

[MadAmster]

I still think they'll get in at the next election. Unless, of course, the Scots have already claimed independence and the Little Englanders get hit with the fact that, without Scotland, England is done for. Problem with that is that Scotland will be gone (believe me, they ARE going), and rightly so, they've been shafted way too long by Wastemonster. They will not become the first ex UK "colony" to request to rejoin the fold following indy either.

In that case it wouldn't matter who got in as England would be crippled financially.

[ramAnag]

I still think they'll get in at the next election. Unless, of course, the Scots have already claimed independence and the Little Englanders get hit with the fact that, without Scotland, England is done for. Problem with that is that Scotland will be gone (believe me, they ARE going), and rightly so, they've been shafted way too long by Wastemonster. They will not become the first ex UK "colony" to request to rejoin the fold following indy either.

In that case it wouldn't matter who got in as England would be crippled financially.

Not sure you’re right about the Scots...I just don’t know enough, but you’re probably right about us being ‘crippled financially’. Brexit (and the pandemic) will have seen to that...the former totally self inflicted, the latter something shared by all countries so no exclusive excuse.

As you say, whoever gets in will have horrendous problems to deal with, as was the case with the coalition in 2010. The difference perhaps is that those of us of a ‘broadly leftish’ persuasion on here are big enough to accept the role of the pandemic in creating these difficulties. I don’t remember such generous realism from Tory supporters when the Brown government collapsed largely as a result of the banking crisis a dozen years ago.

[swaledale]

I still think they'll get in at the next election. Unless, of course, the Scots have already claimed independence and the Little Englanders get hit with the fact that, without Scotland, England is done for. Problem with that is that Scotland will be gone (believe me, they ARE going), and rightly so, they've been shafted way too long by Wastemonster. They will not become the first ex UK "colony" to request to rejoin the fold following indy either.

In that case it wouldn't matter who got in as England would be crippled financially.

Why would Scottish independence cripple England financially?

Back in 2013, it was possible to use these figures to back the idea that Scotland paid slightly more into the UK’s coffers than it took out. That’s if you add up the tax and spending in those years cumulatively, and if you make a number of assumptions about Scotland’s finances, all of which are subject to argument.

But the overall balance was close, even allowing nationalist arguments about Scotland’s likely historic debt, higher UK public spending on Scotland almost completely cancelled out any surplus created by “Scottish” oil.