O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Trickytreesreds]

I still think they'll get in at the next election. Unless, of course, the Scots have already claimed independence and the Little Englanders get hit with the fact that, without Scotland, England is done for. Problem with that is that Scotland will be gone (believe me, they ARE going), and rightly so, they've been shafted way too long by Wastemonster. They will not become the first ex UK "colony" to request to rejoin the fold following indy either.

In that case it wouldn't matter who got in as England would be crippled financially.

In Scotlands case Maddy, Sturgeon is very good at not talking about hidden costs like- pensions/defense/trade tariffs etc.

The free schooling/perscriptions would vanish over night.
I have Jock relatives, they know all this believe me.
Won't happen.

[MadAmster]

In Scotlands case Maddy, Sturgeon is very good at not talking about hidden costs like- pensions/defense/trade tariffs etc.

The free schooling/perscriptions would vanish over night.
I have Jock relatives, they know all this believe me.
Won't happen.

So, you're saying they don't currently pay for pensions, defence etc? Trade tariffs will reduce when they rejoin the EU. Take a look at how much they pay Wastemonster each year. Look at what they get back. About 60% of what they pay in. That 40% goes towards pensions, defence etc and is also used to pay for purely English projects like Crossrail and HS2.

Most of the UKs renewables come from Scotland. Tell me why the Scots pay more for Leccy than you do.

[Trickytreesreds]

So, you're saying they don't currently pay for pensions, defence etc? Trade tariffs will reduce when they rejoin the EU. Take a look at how much they pay Wastemonster each year. Look at what they get back. About 60% of what they pay in. That 40% goes towards pensions, defence etc and is also used to pay for purely English projects like Crossrail and HS2.

Most of the UKs renewables come from Scotland. Tell me why the Scots pay more for Leccy than you do.

Maddy, they pay for pensions like I do.
We all pay for the current crop of pensioners.
They will have to start from scratch.

As with defence, it's a national budget. Who the hell do you think tax wise, raises the most money for the armed forces?
They will have to start from scratch. Monetary/man power and its a big coast line.

so by your figures, how come the Jocks get £1800 spent per head more than England?
Your figures are so wrong. The days of the oil boom are gone, so that deficit no longer applies.
As for the EU?
It could take decades for it to happen, as they have to go through the same process as everyone else and that includes adopting the Euro.
Something Scotland won't do.
It definitely won't happen in my lifetime, never mind yours.
Wishful thinking for EU zealots.

Even if it did, expect a mass exodus south.
I hear it all the time.

[swaledale]

So, you're saying they don't currently pay for pensions, defence etc? Trade tariffs will reduce when they rejoin the EU. Take a look at how much they pay Wastemonster each year. Look at what they get back. About 60% of what they pay in. That 40% goes towards pensions, defence etc and is also used to pay for purely English projects like Crossrail and HS2.

Most of the UKs renewables come from Scotland. Tell me why the Scots pay more for Leccy than you do.

What part of depending upon which figures one uses the actual payments and receipts are about even do you not understand? Even during the oil boom, and those days have long gone, the imbalance was not significant.

The Scots Nationalists have refrained from updating the 2013 figures as well, wonder why that is?

I seem to remember we have had this debate before, the notion that Scotland in some way supports the English is often pedalled, but no economic research that I can find actually supports this, even if one makes very generous assumptions which the nationalists are prone to do, there is in no way the 60 - 40 difference that your quoting is true, at best its 90 - 10 in reality probably about even.

Electricity prices are set by the market, so the notion that Scots pay more than the English is nonsense, thats another reason why people (like me) who buy "solely renewable electricity" (its not actually possible to say where all the electricity comes from due to interconnection) pay the same or as those whose electricity is from gas or coal. It goes into the overall market and that sets the price.

Yes Scotland produces more renewables than other countries, but given that England sources electricity from Scotland, Wales, France, Norway as well as from its offshore wind farms, then the notion that Scotland could make a killing at Englands expense is fanciful, it will be able to sell the power at the market rate, if it charges over that, England would purchase from elsewhere. In any case thats not anything to do with Westminster, its set by private companies.

Then there are costs such as health. education, defence, pensions and repaying its share of the national debt, never mind the cost of a new currency.

As for rejoining the EU, maybe, (though what timescale are we talking here? 5 - 10 years AFTER independence? Its going to be a while before that would help. but given the vast majority of its trade is with England, tariff free trade with the EU isn't going to help is it?

The claim that Scotland subsidises England is a quaint one, but it is false!

Not sure why you think Scotland's government is any more efficient at using resources than Westminster? What evidence do you have for that?

[MadAmster]

Maddy, they pay for pensions like I do.
We all pay for the current crop of pensioners.
They will have to start from scratch.

As with defence, it's a national budget. Who the hell do you think tax wise, raises the most money for the armed forces?
They will have to start from scratch. Monetary/man power and its a big coast line.

so by your figures, how come the Jocks get £1800 spent per head more than England?
Your figures are so wrong. The days of the oil boom are gone, so that deficit no longer applies.
As for the EU?
It could take decades for it to happen, as they have to go through the same process as everyone else and that includes adopting the Euro.
Something Scotland won't do.
It definitely won't happen in my lifetime, never mind yours.
Wishful thinking for EU zealots.

Even if it did, expect a mass exodus south.
I hear it all the time.

There is no scratch re pensions. There is no Pension Fund. It comes out the central "pot".

Defence. They have paid a % of defence budgets for centuries. Shouldn't they get that % of the hardware? What about the Scots regiments, would they all have to move south?

[Trickytreesreds]

There is no scratch re pensions. There is no Pension Fund. It comes out the central "pot".

Defence. They have paid a % of defence budgets for centuries. Shouldn't they get that % of the hardware? What about the Scots regiments, would they all have to move south?

Of course they will. But the future of defence is then solely theirs. Development/training/manufacturing/purchasing. It aint cheap and certainly costing a lot more than they pay out now. There is very little in the way of infrastructure there.
You also need to factor in the nuclear programme. The SNP want it gone. That means bases/personel/jobs/future contracts vanish.
Scotland has 10 000 personel. Exactly though how that will man an army /Navy/Airforce escapes me.

Do not underestimate the moving south, for many.

[swaledale]

There is no scratch re pensions. There is no Pension Fund. It comes out the central "pot".

Defence. They have paid a % of defence budgets for centuries. Shouldn't they get that % of the hardware? What about the Scots regiments, would they all have to move south?

Centuries? Are you going back to the days when we had to subdue the Scots?

Your still ignoring the central fact, that there is no 60-40 imbalance between what Scotland contributes and what England pays so as thats not true the rest is irrelevant!

[MadAmster]

Of course they will. But the future of defence is then solely theirs. Development/training/manufacturing/purchasing. It aint cheap and certainly costing a lot more than they pay out now. There is very little in the way of infrastructure there.
You also need to factor in the nuclear programme. The SNP want it gone. That means bases/personel/jobs/future contracts vanish.
Scotland has 10 000 personel. Exactly though how that will man an army /Navy/Airforce escapes me.

Do not underestimate the moving south, for many.

Look at smaller countries like Iceland, Finland, Norway and others. All have similar population sizes to Scotland yet they seem to manage yet you think that "little old Scotland" can't. Why?

[Trickytreesreds]

Look at smaller countries like Iceland, Finland, Norway and others. All have similar population sizes to Scotland yet they seem to manage yet you think that "little old Scotland" can't. Why?

I never said it couldn't manage.
But the hit they would take would be massive.
Their debts would rise and all the freebies they enjoy would vanish.
They Scots know this well and as said, I have a direct route of Scottish feeling. Apart from bloody Glasgow and Dundee, the feeling is a lot more apprehensive.
You mentioned the EU.
They fail the criteria on so many levels, which makes rejoining an absolute nightmare. To do so, means a massive policy of cuts just to reduce the GDP, to meet the minimum.
Then have to hope they don't get black balled by just one country(watch Spain), to get a foot in.

Of course, you being in Holland may mean you have access to info I don;t. Please explain.

[MadAmster]

The Scots have gas, oil, whisky, water, electricity. Most of which they export. There are a lot of other, similarly sized countries that manage perfectly well and only have some of the resources Scotland has. Why can they manage yet so many people think Scotland would fail?

That was my question. That is still my question. Please don't answer it with a question of your own