O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[swaledale]

Its like arguing with a woman, Ram59, every time you raise a valid point they change the subject to something similar but not the point at hand, but where they think they can "win" moving on from the topic that they are "losing". That is why I decided not to bother debating any longer: just a waste of keystrokes. I'd urge the same

**** me *s@xist as well! one of the lost cause brigade, which I kind of thought you were seeing as you have no understanding of racism!

Change the subject? Mm I think that only happens when Ra and myself get no response when you've been called out on some obviously erroneous remark you have posted and get no response!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Not reigniting any argument, there is no argument here - just affording you an opportunity to put your money where your mouth was and relinquish your jab in favour of a key worker. Something for your ideals and your conscience to determine

You seemed keen enough earlier for others to make this sacrifice, and now you have got the first chance of those among us to act in a principled way. If no ID is required, it should be simplicity itself to let someone know your date of birth and address, and give him or her your appointment.

I don't blame you for putting yourself before the key workers, I'd do the same

[Andy_Faber]

**** me *s@xist as well! one of the lost cause brigade, which I kind of thought you were seeing as you have no understanding of racism!

Change the subject? Mm I think that only happens when Ra and myself get no response when you've been called out on some obviously erroneous remark you have posted and get no response!

I think you’ll find that’s just observational opinion Swale, you may disagree but it’s an opinion, I’m sure GP has many, both positive and negative, about both (all?) ***es

[ramAnag]

Not reigniting any argument, there is no argument here - just affording you an opportunity to put your money where your mouth was and relinquish your jab in favour of a key worker. Something for your ideals and your conscience to determine

You seemed keen enough earlier for others to make this sacrifice, and now you have got the first chance of those among us to act in a principled way. If no ID is required, it should be simplicity itself to let someone know your date of birth and address, and give him or her your appointment.

I don't blame you for putting yourself before the key workers, I'd do the same

I honestly don’t know what’s happened to you. Read back what you’ve written, it’s just complete tripe.
My position is completely unchanged...and my ideals and conscience don’t come into it.

One last time...if, perish the thought, I was running the system I would make a strong case for ‘front line’ workers to be vaccinated before 65+ year olds with no known health issues...but I’m not, and all you’re suggesting is that a) I break the law, b) I more or less guarantee never being vaccinated myself and c) I screw up the whole system.

Run along and stop being so ridiculous.

[Ram59]

You do seem easily offended these days, no matter how innocent the perceived ‘challenge’, Ram.

In point of fact Andy and I were discussing the usefulness or otherwise of Trump’s ‘China Virus!’ comments and the levels of credit and criticism which the government deserve. You introduced the media talk on the NZ issue which I can see the sense of but which hadn’t been brought up on the forum as a comparison before to the best of my knowledge.

Go back and have a look if you don’t believe me.

My comments on Grant Shapps’ observations weren’t aimed at you at all. I am just astounded that a Government minister can be so ignorant as to fail to recognise that a) Australia is also an island. b) Australia is not a continent. c) Being an island somehow prohibits us from controlling our borders. Were we not an island before Brexit and are our borders the only ones in Europe crossed by ‘thousands of lorries and vans’?

As it happens I do see the sense of your comments as regards the difficulties surrounding the ‘thousands of lorries and vans entering through our ports’.
The only answer I can come up with is that some of the virtually instant tests that are now available are implemented either before they leave or immediately upon arrival.

P.S. ‘Accessible clothing’ is always requested where vaccinations are concerned up here, GP. They get frustrated with geriatric, and apparently rather s exist, ‘James Deans’ using up valuable time struggling to remove their clothing.

You claimed that I threw a 'red herring' into the conversation when I brought up the New Zealand comparison. Take a look at my post again, I was replying to Andy's post claiming that 93% of people felt that we should have closed the borders last spring. I was arguing that this would have been impossible and my annoyance with the media saying that because New Zealand could do it, then so should we.

As regards to your idea of testing at the port of entry for lorry and van drivers, don't they already need a negative test and so do those coming in at the airports? Btw, so many issues need to be addressed, when sorting out quarantine measures, I'm not surprised that there are delays. One big issue, not yet mentioned, is how the air conditioning and ventilation systems will spread the virus between rooms in the hotels.

Incidently, the governments initial response at the borders was awful, I complained at the time when I returned from New Zealand on 16th March, via Dubai, that all I was met with, was a sign on an A4 piece of paper on a post, saying that if I felt unwell, I should go home and self isolate for a few days, nevermind tell anyone that I'd been on a plane with 400 others.

[Ram59]

Change the subject? Mm I think that only happens when Ra and myself get no response when you've been called out on some obviously erroneous remark you have posted and get no response![/QUOTE]


I think we're all guilty of that Swale, btw are you still pissing yourself at the thought of those over 80s being stupid enough to think the Astra vaccine is actually produced in the UK and you haven't yet explained to me where Germany's extra 30 million doses are being stored, because they're not going into German arms?

When we're wrong and called out, we have 3 choices;

1, carry on with our argument, even though everyone knows we're wrong.
2, go quiet and forget about it
3, on rare occasions, actually admit that we're wrong

[ramAnag]

You claimed that I threw a 'red herring' into the conversation when I brought up the New Zealand comparison. Take a look at my post again, I was replying to Andy's post claiming that 93% of people felt that we should have closed the borders last spring. I was arguing that this would have been impossible and my annoyance with the media saying that because New Zealand could do it, then so should we.

As regards to your idea of testing at the port of entry for lorry and van drivers, don't they already need a negative test and so do those coming in at the airports? Btw, so many issues need to be addressed, when sorting out quarantine measures, I'm not surprised that there are delays. One big issue, not yet mentioned, is how the air conditioning and ventilation systems will spread the virus between rooms in the hotels.

Incidently, the governments initial response at the borders was awful, I complained at the time when I returned from New Zealand on 16th March, via Dubai, that all I was met with, was a sign on an A4 piece of paper on a post, saying that if I felt unwell, I should go home and self isolate for a few days, nevermind tell anyone that I'd been on a plane with 400 others.

I didn’t actually. I said NZ was a ‘red herring’, not particularly or anymore as introduced by you than the media...whoever, and that no one on the forum had mentioned it.

I don’t know whether they do or not. Strictly on the subject of road freight...I don’t know what restrictions are in place across mainland Europe at the moment, but if you ever drive east from Calais the sheer volume of lorries crossing borders from France into Belgium into Holland into Germany and on towards Poland is staggering.

Tbf, by the 16th March the pandemic had only just begun to be taken seriously in this country. Only the week before England had played Wales at a full Twickenham, City had beaten Villa at a packed Wembley and Cheltenham Week had attracted about 200,000 to Gloucestershire, but I agree about returnees to the UK and had a very similar experience when returning to Heathrow in October.

[Trickytreesreds]

This gets funnier. Now the Dutch have banned the Oxford vaccine for over 65's.
One minute they all want it so bad, they nearly start a trade war and push the peace process into jeopardy, to cover their tracks.
Following Macron and Merkels lead, the vaccine is no good now for them
It comes despite the EU’s drug watchdog, the European Medicines Agency, giving it the green light for use in all adults across the bloc.
All this since Frances vaccine bit the dust and a big fail.

Petty kids, boo hooing,

Priceless.

[swaledale]

Change the subject? Mm I think that only happens when Ra and myself get no response when you've been called out on some obviously erroneous remark you have posted and get no response!

I think we're all guilty of that Swale, btw are you still pissing yourself at the thought of those over 80s being stupid enough to think the Astra vaccine is actually produced in the UK and you haven't yet explained to me where Germany's extra 30 million doses are being stored, because they're not going into German arms?

When we're wrong and called out, we have 3 choices;

1, carry on with our argument, even though everyone knows we're wrong.
2, go quiet and forget about it
3, on rare occasions, actually admit that we're wrong[/QUOTE]



Oh god I do despair sometimes, yes the AstraZeneca vaccine is produced in the UK, that actually doesn't make it any more a British vaccine than the fact that Pfizer is currently being produced in Belgium makes it a Belgian vaccine! Or the vaccine that was created by a French firm in Brittany which is going to be made in Scotland is a Scottish vaccine. I'm sure you know that AstraZenica is a British/Swedish multi national, so you could call it an Anglo Swedish vaccine I suppose?

So yes I am still pissing myself laughing at those stupid over 80's wanting to wait for the "British" vaccine, I'm sure they apply the same logic in other health issues, no they can't do because if they did they wouldn't have reached 80!

You clearly didn't read my answer read my answer - though not sure what your getting at - the fact that Germany ordered 30 million vaccine does last September is a matter of fact! Now as you have a problem with simple concepts - one, as the order was last September, it means its being produced now, as its being produced now, it wouldn't need to be stored would it? Because it hasn't been delivered simples.

Secondly I already agreed that even with the vaccine supplies they already have Germany had been using a system whereby people had to book slots online for the vaccine, which was limited to 15,000 a day and seemed to be a very odd way to do things. In short the Germans have ****ed up their vaccination programme and I said that to!

So much so that there is a lot of flak being directed internally at the moment within Germany.

I also agreed that the EU had ****ed up royally with their political posturing over vaccine exports and the threat to override the protocol on the Irish Border, or at least some hothead in the Commission had, because the relevant governments hadn't been informed.

[Andy_Faber]

So yes I am still pissing myself laughing at those stupid over 80's wanting to wait for the "British" vaccine, I'm sure they apply the same logic in other health issues, no they can't do because if they did they wouldn't have reached 80!.

You really spoil your posts with cheap **** like this, although I notice you’ve now removed the unfounded ‘white’ comment. Wouldn’t your mirth be better directed at the 80 year olds, and for that matter all valid age groups, who are declining the the vaccine full stop because they’ve read on the internet or been told by their ****age grandkids that it contains meat products, alcohol, or is less effective than garlic?

And it’s not ‘British’, it’s British, to be precise
‘COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca was co-invented by the University of Oxford and its spin-out company, Vaccitech.’ And massively invested in by HMG AND unlike the rest, available to the world at cost. I’m proud of that, I suggest you get with the program - your ‘in-denial’ attitude to anything positive about Britain baffles me