O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure what your point is. I haven’t criticised the vaccination programme over the last two months. The only possible ‘fine tuning’ I’ve suggested is that those in the front line might have been given greater priority. That’s just opinion.

I think you misunderstood my comment about the French - IMO their 'spinning' was desperate, not their vaccination situation.

[Ram59]

Yes I read that and thought it was a bit of desperation/sour grapes

I also read that The French are now spinning their pathetic effort as being superior to UK’s on the basis that a greater percentage of their population (that have had at least one jab) have had two jabs, conveniently ignoring that their base number is minuscule compared to U.K. That REALLY is desperate on the part of les frogs

Meanwhile, UKPLC power on

Talking about the French, it was interesting to see that their HAT authority has recommended giving only one dose to those who have had covid, at a stage between 3 and 6 months after testing positive.

Interesting on 2 fronts, firstly, the theory behind it sounds plausible and should be investigated, basically comparing the immunity gained from having the virus to the immunity gained from having the first dose. Secondly, the fact that they feel you should wait 3 months (12 weeks) after testing positive, before giving the second dose, which sort of backs up the UK's strategy, attacked by the EU.

It also throws up another potential problem though, could 2 doses be too much for people who already have immunity from previously having the virus? I ask this from previous experience, my father nearly died from TB before my birth and I was inoculated as a baby, when it came to having the jab as a ****ager, I had a positive reaction to the test and shouldn't have had another shot. The doctor was in a bad mood that day and ignored my protestations and gave me the jab, which I suffered quite a bad reaction to and ended up going to hospital, to check if the overdose had given me TB. I don't suppose any investigation has yet looked into this.

[Andy_Faber]

Talking about the French, it was interesting to see that their HAT authority has recommended giving only one dose to those who have had covid, at a stage between 3 and 6 months after testing positive.

Interesting on 2 fronts, firstly, the theory behind it sounds plausible and should be investigated, basically comparing the immunity gained from having the virus to the immunity gained from having the first dose. Secondly, the fact that they feel you should wait 3 months (12 weeks) after testing positive, before giving the second dose, which sort of backs up the UK's strategy, attacked by the EU.

It also throws up another potential problem though, could 2 doses be too much for people who already have immunity from previously having the virus? I ask this from previous experience, my father nearly died from TB before my birth and I was inoculated as a baby, when it came to having the jab as a ****ager, I had a positive reaction to the test and shouldn't have had another shot. The doctor was in a bad mood that day and ignored my protestations and gave me the jab, which I suffered quite a bad reaction to and ended up going to hospital, to check if the overdose had given me TB. I don't suppose any investigation has yet looked into this.

Yes the interaction of a proper dose of Covid plus one or two jabs needs investigation, haven't heard that anyone is doing so.

[swaledale]

Talking about the French, it was interesting to see that their HAT authority has recommended giving only one dose to those who have had covid, at a stage between 3 and 6 months after testing positive.

Interesting on 2 fronts, firstly, the theory behind it sounds plausible and should be investigated, basically comparing the immunity gained from having the virus to the immunity gained from having the first dose. Secondly, the fact that they feel you should wait 3 months (12 weeks) after testing positive, before giving the second dose, which sort of backs up the UK's strategy, attacked by the EU.

It also throws up another potential problem though, could 2 doses be too much for people who already have immunity from previously having the virus? I ask this from previous experience, my father nearly died from TB before my birth and I was inoculated as a baby, when it came to having the jab as a ****ager, I had a positive reaction to the test and shouldn't have had another shot. The doctor was in a bad mood that day and ignored my protestations and gave me the jab, which I suffered quite a bad reaction to and ended up going to hospital, to check if the overdose had given me TB. I don't suppose any investigation has yet looked into this.

From what I ahve read, the Covid vaccine does not contain the live virus, in this it differs from some of the older vaccines such as for TB, measles etc, so the issue of "overdosing" on Covid does not arise.

[MadAmster]

From what I ahve read, the Covid vaccine does not contain the live virus, in this it differs from some of the older vaccines such as for TB, measles etc, so the issue of "overdosing" on Covid does not arise.

Correct. It contans a protein found in the "outer casing" of the virus. It is this protein which causes your immune system to create antibodies.

Taken from chop.edu

In the case of COVID-19, the important protein is the spike protein of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The mRNA that codes for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is taken up by cells called dendritic cells, which express the spike protein on the cell surface, travel to a local lymph node, and stimulate other cells of the immune system (B cells) to make antibodies. These antibodies protect us, so that if we are exposed to SARS-CoV-2 in the future, our immune system is ready and we don’t get sick. (See more about dendritic cells and the adaptive immune system in this animation.)

This raises questions:

1. Does it stop us getting infected? They don't know yet
2. Does it stop you infecting others? They don't know yet

The only thing they do know is that the data shows the vaccine will stop you getting sick to the point of having to be hospitalised.

[MadAmster]

The path out of lockdown.

I've not yet read anything on UK steps to trial any plans. Here in NL we had our first "event" yesterday.

There was a "congress", held in the Beatrix Theatre in Utrecht with 500 people. They were all tested 48 hours prior to the congress starting. All came up negative. They all had their temperature taken on entry. None had a raised temperature. Inside they were split into 3 "bubbles". They constituted 50, 200 and 250 people. The groups had varying tasks. Wearing/not wearing a mask. Keeping/not keeping social distancing. One group was told to be "space invaders". There were other "tasks" as well. All designed to gain info that will help formulating the road map back to some semblance of normality.

In 5 days they will all be tested again.

More events have been planned in the coming 4 weeks.

20 february: cabaret van Guido Weijers (500 people)
21 february: 2nd tier football match NEC-De Graafschap (1500)
28 february: 2nd tier football match Almere City FC-Cambuur Leeuwarden (1500)
6 march: dance event in Ziggo Dome (1300)
7 march: concert in Ziggo Dome (1300)
13 march: dance festival (outdoors) Walibi Holland (1500)
14 march: pop festival (outdoors) Walibi Holland (1500)

They hope that the info gained from these test events will be the catalyst to the reopening road map.

Any similar events planned for the UK?

[ramAnag]

I think you misunderstood my comment about the French - IMO their 'spinning' was desperate, not their vaccination situation.

Again Andy, I don’t see the relevance of your response to my comment you have chosen to quote.(#1201)

My reaction to your earlier vaguely triumphalist anti ‘frog’ comment was that I hoped we’d progressed from those sort of times.
Being born nine years after the end of WW2 I remember all too well a ’school playground world’ where the wartime hangover still described ‘the only good German as a dead German’, the French were ‘cowardly frogs’, the Italian tanks had ‘one forward gear and five reverse gears’ and the ‘Blacks and Irish’ were regarded as being on a par with dogs.

I hoped we’d left those days behind and just as I don’t want the Brits to be stereotyped as a bunch of arrogant ‘island monkeys’ I don’t see how such nationalistic - or patriotic if you prefer - name calling helps anyone.

P.S. On a lighter note...hope that wasn’t MA, on Sky News, crashing through the ice in his underpants on a frozen Amsterdam canal!
Looked like it stung a bit.

[Trickytreesreds]

The only thing they do know is that the data shows the vaccine will stop you getting sick to the point of having to be hospitalised.

That's the key point for me.
If it means a few days on the sofa sick, fine. Being in hospital on a ventilator isn't fine.

Just like the flu every year, the country can get on with its life

[MadAmster]

Not me rA. Not skated since 2011. Ventured out onto the lake about 500 yards from my house on Sunday afternoon. The ice was perfect with the appearance of having a black sheen. The best ice to skate on. I was never a good skater but did manage to travel forwards, once doing 20Km, at the end of which my legs were screaming at me due to lactic acid overload. Anyway, to cut a long story short, it took me less than a minute to decide that the small amount of skill I may have once had, had deserted me and I would be spending more time on my arse than enjoying a skate and hearing the wonderful sounds the ice makes..... I beat a retreat and that was it. I won't be trying it again in the future. Over the weekend 40,000 people were treated at A&E with cut heads, concussion, broken arms, shoulders and hips.......

It appears my age induced wisdom has finally got the better of my youthful bravado and skating now belongs, firmly, in the past. Better sensible than plastered.......

[ramAnag]

Not me rA. Not skated since 2011. Ventured out onto the lake about 500 yards from my house on Sunday afternoon. The ice was perfect with the appearance of having a black sheen. The best ice to skate on. I was never a good skater but did manage to travel forwards, once doing 20Km, at the end of which my legs were screaming at me due to lactic acid overload. Anyway, to cut a long story short, it took me less than a minute to decide that the small amount of skill I may have once had, had deserted me and I would be spending more time on my arse than enjoying a skate and hearing the wonderful sounds the ice makes..... I beat a retreat and that was it. I won't be trying it again in the future. Over the weekend 40,000 people were treated at A&E with cut heads, concussion, broken arms, shoulders and hips.......

It appears my age induced wisdom has finally got the better of my youthful bravado and skating now belongs, firmly, in the past. Better sensible than plastered.......

Wise decision MA. I bet the 40,000 went down well with the Dutch hospital system which is, presumably, similarly overloaded by Covid casualties to our own.