O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Trickytreesreds]

Just, you know, compassion for my fellow man.

OK so where does your compassion lie?

1.The general population, where 99% get no ill effects
2.The old
3. The infirm

You cannot satisfy everyone. COVID is as dangerous to the old, as is the normal strains of flu every winter.
What about all those patients having their treatments stopped or blocked and their lives now in danger?

My sympathies lie with the 25 year old mother, suffering cancer, more than they do with the 90 year old grandma.
As on the battlefield, it's triage.
You can't save everyone.

[Ram59]

With respect Ram...and honestly...good for you...but it isn’t the child care of ten month olds where the problem lies.
It’s with those in nurseries or the 5-14 year olds who are mixing so thoroughly in school.

Can only agree with your second paragraph.

I'm glad we agree on something RA. But I'm with GP on this, surely grandparents should be mature enough, to be allowed to make the decision for themselves and their family. As we've agreed, we are being subject to some draconian restrictions on our social habits because of the actions of the minority, but should these draconian measures extend to affecting families' livelihoods?

Shouldn't individual families be able to make their own choice as to whether the risks are worth it.

Take my example for instance, your rule would prevent my daughter - in - law returning to work and causing hardship to her family. This ruling allows us to make the easy decision for us to go ahead with childcare.

I know families with older children face a tougher decision, but shouldn't they have the right to take necessary measures and make that decision for themselves? The government aren't forcing them to look after their grandchildren, just enablingn them to do so.

If need be, treat your school aged grand child as a potential carrier, maintain social distancing where possible and at other times wear a mask. Encourage self hygiene and clean any common surfaces touched. Treat it as if you're going out for a meal with your children and grandchildren. Risks can be minimised, with a bit of common sense.

[AdiSalisbury]

Every life is important. Even Grandpa RA and Great Uncle GP, don't deserve to be subjected to the virus, just because you're a little fed up with it. That 1% you mention, is a large and important part of our society. Your 25 year old mother example, isn't going to get much treatment if the hospitals are rammed with the general population, and probably won't get much support if the people who need to care for her are all infected and so can't make contact with her.

Every effort to reduce death and suffering, in my book, is worthwhile.

Whether the Tories got it right or not is debatable (hence this thread), I've no idea how Labour would've done it, I suspect they'd have had the same scientific advice and confusion, and would have made similar decisions. I agree with RA that it's apolitical, and totally get the concerns he raises, yet I don't know what the advice the Government are receiving, the risk statistics, or the economic pressure groups they are having to balance. So whilst I don't necessarilly know why they've made each exact decisions, I'm comfortable that they've made every effort to get it right, which is why you won't find me overly criticising. You may liken it to a battlefield, but it's not a battlefield.

[MadAmster]

Huge protest planned for this Saturday (26th) in that there Landen. Traf Square I think.

1. Will it be banned
2. Will they hold it anyway
3. Will the police hold off if it's peaceful
4. Will a group of "whatever" wingers hijack it for a riot

I asked a question earlier today, aimed at the police. No answers as yet..... the question being, let's say, for the sake of argument, that the "alternative thinkers" are right and it's all just a ruse by the powers that be (1%, Illuminati, Cabal, Freemasons, Satanists etc) to usher in the "New World Order", forcing everyone to have a CV-10 jab which will, as do many vaccines, contain mercury and other substances known to be harmful to human beings and that it also contains nano-particles that work as RFID chips so "they" always know where you are and can give you some kind of shock if you're up to no good and maybe even alter your thoughts.......... who should the police support, the 1% or the people? I suggested someone at the protest should ask the police present that very question either through a megaphone or from the stage using the sound system asking them to take 1 step forward for the people and 1 back for the 1%.

I think many would take a step back and line up for their jabs.

[Andy_Faber]

My opinion is that these twerps should be rounded up and asked ‘do you want to be made to work in Covid wards with no PPE, or do you want to go home?’

[ramAnag]

I'm glad we agree on something RA. But I'm with GP on this, surely grandparents should be mature enough, to be allowed to make the decision for themselves and their family. As we've agreed, we are being subject to some draconian restrictions on our social habits because of the actions of the minority, but should these draconian measures extend to affecting families' livelihoods?

Shouldn't individual families be able to make their own choice as to whether the risks are worth it.

Take my example for instance, your rule would prevent my daughter - in - law returning to work and causing hardship to her family. This ruling allows us to make the easy decision for us to go ahead with childcare.

I know families with older children face a tougher decision, but shouldn't they have the right to take necessary measures and make that decision for themselves? The government aren't forcing them to look after their grandchildren, just enablingn them to do so.

If need be, treat your school aged grand child as a potential carrier, maintain social distancing where possible and at other times wear a mask. Encourage self hygiene and clean any common surfaces touched. Treat it as if you're going out for a meal with your children and grandchildren. Risks can be minimised, with a bit of common sense.

I have no ‘rule’ Ram, and no wish to prevent you from helping your daughter in law.
I also agree completely about not so common ‘common sense’ and suspect we both have plenty of it.
Fortunately my children and grandchildren seem to have inherited it and they are, if anything, much more Covid cautious than me.
My point is that I find it quite bewildering that after five months of some degree of social distancing from one’s own family the (Government) advice is now that older people - the very ones said a few weeks ago to be most at risk - are excluded from the necessary precautionary steps if involved in childcare.
I don’t know what has changed so to me it doesn’t make sense, but I’ve spent too much time on this one already.

[mistaram]

So what's your balance Adi?

More people are judged to die because of Covid, not from it.
Sweden hasn't done feck all, but has suffered no worse than anyone.


I said shelter the old and infirm. So which bit has you blubbing like a child?

Tricky you right Sweden did feck all and isolation was voluntary But if you check they have the worst Covid death rate per capita than any other European country. It's the old catch 22 system do you save lives or your economy Having read about Sweden's efforts it is the medics who decide who lives and who dies Would this country stand for that doubt it don't even think our doctors would either .

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky you right Sweden did feck all and isolation was voluntary But if you check they have the worst Covid death rate per capita than any other European country. It's the old catch 22 system do you save lives or your economy Having read about Sweden's efforts it is the medics who decide who lives and who dies Would this country stand for that doubt it don't even think our doctors would either .

OK, I get that. But will Sweden suffer-
1. deaths by no access to hospital for treatment
2. Suicide rates going up
3. Poverty through a crumbling economy.

I very much doubt it.
Add our Covid and extra deaths forced on us by lock down and you get a hell of a different picture,

[Ram59]

I have no ‘rule’ Ram, and no wish to prevent you from helping your daughter in law.
I also agree completely about not so common ‘common sense’ and suspect we both have plenty of it.
Fortunately my children and grandchildren seem to have inherited it and they are, if anything, much more Covid cautious than me.
My point is that I find it quite bewildering that after five months of some degree of social distancing from one’s own family the (Government) advice is now that older people - the very ones said a few weeks ago to be most at risk - are excluded from the necessary precautionary steps if involved in childcare.
I don’t know what has changed so to me it doesn’t make sense, but I’ve spent too much time on this one already.

But supposedly, the expert advice had changed and Young children are now not considered to pose a high threat of transmission of the virus.

It's not as if the government are forcing people to look after them.

[ramAnag]

But supposedly, the expert advice had changed and Young children are now not considered to pose a high threat of transmission of the virus.

It's not as if the government are forcing people to look after them.

Yep...that’s a point of view. Equally, does it not seem more than mere coincidence that the levels have spiked so drastically since the schools returned?

If young people do not pose a ‘high threat of transmission’ why did they close the schools in the first place? Isn’t it a little suspicious that the ‘expert advice’ has suddenly changed both where the youngest and older members of society are concerned? It’s not so long ago that there was even talk of all over 65’s having to stay indoors.

You’re right...as I have already acknowledged...the government aren’t ‘forcing’ grandparents into childcare...but they have now sown a seed that just a few months ago would have been unthinkable.
At the risk of being anecdotal, my own experience has been that for Mothers’ Day and one family birthday we visited but sat in the car talking from the front door...then as things eased a little we sat in different but adjacent rooms in the house with the doors and windows open...next we socially distanced on a terrace before progressing to playing garden football and cricket with appropriate use of sanitiser - as used at local cricket clubs - and none of the usual ‘high fives’.
That, largely instigated by my daughter and the oldest grandchild, has been our attempt to maintain family life and protect ourselves and our family.
Things appeared to be getting better...now they’re getting worse but the restrictions are being relaxed as far as grandparents providing childcare are concerned.
The last thing I’m doing is ‘moaning’ about it...but the logic just doesn’t stack up...imo.