O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

More ‘erms’ than Rooney this evening from the PM...always seems to be a good ‘barometer’ of his truth telling.

How convenient that the new bad news about the Indian variant has only been released after the local election results where the Tories benefited to such an extent from the vaccine roll out program.

Not sure the vaccine premium is such an effect as you suggest rA, all the polls I see suggest that the public haven't let the vaccine roll out blind them to earlier ineptitudes. Unfortunately for Labour (purely IMO) the results we saw are indicative more of rejection (of Labour) than approval (of the Conservatives)

[Andy_Faber]

Good for Matt Hancock (almost) telling it straight today, linking in unsympathetic terms the failure to take up the vaccine with the ultimate destination of a Covid intensive care bed (and, although unsaid, ultimately beyond even). I'm actually quite surprised he hasn't had some apologist on his case about being so direct

[MadAmster]

Good for Matt Hancock (almost) telling it straight today, linking in unsympathetic terms the failure to take up the vaccine with the ultimate destination of a Covid intensive care bed (and, although unsaid, ultimately beyond even). I'm actually quite surprised he hasn't had some apologist on his case about being so direct

As the stats appeear to say the lowest take up is amongst the BAME group, I'm surprised he's not been called out s being a racist.

[ramAnag]

Not sure the vaccine premium is such an effect as you suggest rA, all the polls I see suggest that the public haven't let the vaccine roll out blind them to earlier ineptitudes. Unfortunately for Labour (purely IMO) the results we saw are indicative more of rejection (of Labour) than approval (of the Conservatives)

Can’t help but agree that Labour still have a great deal to sort out, AF...but as far as Johnson’s Tories are concerned they have, the vaccine rollout aside, been shambolic.
The negative impact of Brexit has been largely hidden by the pandemic thus far and I simply cannot remember a time when any PM has had his personal integrity challenged to such an extent.
So yes...the recent Tory ‘bounce’ may well have been the result of the ineptitude of others, but it is also, imo, the result of a popular response to the apparent and welcome success of the vaccine rollout.

As regards your ‘apologist’ comment. I don’t know what Hancock said but, again imo, the only people who have a justifiable reason for avoiding the vaccine are those with relatable health conditions and those who are pregnant. There are no other valid excuses that I can think of for vaccine avoidance. Not sure how you define ‘apologist’ though.

[Andy_Faber]

Can’t help but agree that Labour still have a great deal to sort out, AF...but as far as Johnson’s Tories are concerned they have, the vaccine rollout aside, been shambolic.
The negative impact of Brexit has been largely hidden by the pandemic thus far and I simply cannot remember a time when any PM has had his personal integrity challenged to such an extent.
So yes...the recent Tory ‘bounce’ may well have been the result of the ineptitude of others, but it is also, imo, the result of a popular response to the apparent and welcome success of the vaccine rollout.

As regards your ‘apologist’ comment. I don’t know what Hancock said but, again imo, the only people who have a justifiable reason for avoiding the vaccine are those with relatable health conditions and those who are pregnant. There are no other valid excuses that I can think of for vaccine avoidance. Not sure how you define ‘apologist’ though.

I think I’m agreeing with you in a less partisan way rA, problem for those like you who judge based on performance is we are a bit stuck in personality politics and the Tories, I’m afraid, have more appealling ones.

In this context I’d describe an apologist as someone who seeks to excuse/justify the actions or lack thereof of a particular person or group of people against all the evidence. In this case, specifically see MA’s comment above.

[ramAnag]

I think I’m agreeing with you in a less partisan way rA, problem for those like you who judge based on performance is we are a bit stuck in personality politics and the Tories, I’m afraid, have more appealling ones.

In this context I’d describe an apologist as someone who seeks to excuse/justify the actions or lack thereof of a particular person or group of people against all the evidence. In this case, specifically see MA’s comment above.

I’m not sure how I’m being particularly ‘partisan’, AF. I’m not actually criticising along ‘party’ lines and have accepted that Labour has loads to do.

I understand MA’s ‘apologist’ point. Maybe we can expect a lot of Brexiteer apologists in the not too distant future.

[Andy_Faber]

I’m not sure how I’m being particularly ‘partisan’, AF. I’m not actually criticising along ‘party’ lines and have accepted that Labour has loads to do.

I understand MA’s ‘apologist’ point. Maybe we can expect a lot of Brexiteer apologists in the not too distant future.

That's on another thread rA.

[ramAnag]

The lack of clarity over Bolton, Blackburn, Bedford, Leicester etc really isn’t good...especially in the context of the AZ vaccine only providing 60% protection against the Indian variant.
Communication has always been one of the weakest aspect of the ‘Government’s Handling of Covid’ and unfortunately that doesn’t seem to have changed. No room for complacency with half term and better weather approaching.

[Andy_Faber]

The lack of clarity over Bolton, Blackburn, Bedford, Leicester etc really isn’t good...especially in the context of the AZ vaccine only providing 60% protection against the Indian variant.
Communication has always been one of the weakest aspect of the ‘Government’s Handling of Covid’ and unfortunately that doesn’t seem to have changed. No room for complacency with half term and better weather approaching.

yes they've ****ed up good and proper, both from a public health POV (IMO at least some of those areas SHOULD have been locked down but I can guess a number of reasons they wouldn't politically) and a party political POV (there's no excuse for slipping it in the fine print, I'm amazed the opposition aren't over it way more than are)

Not really on your wavelength on the AZ thing though, its hospital admissions/intensive care/ventilator/death ratios that really matter and its way way more than 60% effective there, its not taking it AT ALL that's the sin (with lack of social distancing being the cherry on the cake).

[ramAnag]

yes they've ****ed up good and proper, both from a public health POV (IMO at least some of those areas SHOULD have been locked down but I can guess a number of reasons they wouldn't politically) and a party political POV (there's no excuse for slipping it in the fine print, I'm amazed the opposition aren't over it way more than are)

Not really on your wavelength on the AZ thing though, its hospital admissions/intensive care/ventilator/death ratios that really matter and its way way more than 60% effective there, its not taking it AT ALL that's the sin (with lack of social distancing being the cherry on the cake).

Of course you’re right about the hospital admissions/death rate aspect...but, worst case scenario, if the AZ vaccine - which is the one most people here have had - only provides such relatively limited protection, and the Indian (or other) variants take off then we may be on the way back to square one. Hope not...but better (any even) Government communication and direction would help.