O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

I think I may have kicked this spat off by what may have been a clumsily expressed support of Don (we can just call him Don now can't we?) referring to Covid as 'The China Virus'. My motivation for that concern that I was/am suspicious that there was/is an effort, at what I can only guess was State sponsored level, to a) suppress the fact of its origin and b) progressivesly point the finger of blame elsewhere. I'm certainly aware of that from my business dealings

Although as usual I'll make my own mind up on who I support be they despot or deity I did make the point at the time that although I thought the FACT of Don refering to it as 'The China Virus' was useful, I didn't agree with the TONE. Pleased now to see WHO reps investigating at the suspected source of the pandemic, but having seen the phorensic way evidence of failure is erased in the commercial/business world in that region, I doubt they'll find much

[ramAnag]

I think I may have kicked this spat off by what may have been a clumsily expressed support of Don (we can just call him Don now can't we?) referring to Covid as 'The China Virus'. My motivation for that concern that I was/am suspicious that there was/is an effort, at what I can only guess was State sponsored level, to a) suppress the fact of its origin and b) progressivesly point the finger of blame elsewhere. I'm certainly aware of that from my business dealings

Although as usual I'll make my own mind up on who I support be they despot or deity I did make the point at the time that although I thought the FACT of Don refering to it as 'The China Virus' was useful, I didn't agree with the TONE. Pleased now to see WHO reps investigating at the suspected source of the pandemic, but having seen the phorensic way evidence of failure is erased in the commercial/business world in that region, I doubt they'll find much

I’m not sure how it was ever ‘useful’ to refer to Covid as the ‘China Virus’, Andy. Didn’t/doesn’t everyone know that the original virus originated in China, more specifically in Wuhan? There was, at the time, just the one virus and the only question that continues to need an urgent answer is whether the source was a ‘wet market’ or, much more sinisterly, a laboratory.

As regards the ‘finger of blame’...the fact is that some countries, ironically China included, appear to have proved much better at managing the virus than others.
Unfortunately the Trump (you call him what you want ) led USA and the UK have, according to all the statistics, been amongst the worst performers in terms of managing the impact of the pandemic upon our two countries. That is, sadly, just inescapable fact.
Fortunately our Government has gone some way to redeeming itself via its management of the vaccine.
So, ultimately it’s just a case of credit and criticism where it’s due.
HMG appears to deserve credit for the actions it has taken in relation to supply and distribution of the vaccine since the turn of the year and hopefully that will continue to be the case.
It also deserves condemnation and criticism for the shambolic series of contradictions and U turns that typified its performance for much of 2020.

[Andy_Faber]

I’m not sure how it was ever ‘useful’ to refer to Covid as the ‘China Virus’, Andy. Didn’t/doesn’t everyone know that the original virus originated in China, more specifically in Wuhan? There was, at the time, just the one virus and the only question that continues to need an urgent answer is whether the source was a ‘wet market’ or, much more sinisterly, a laboratory.

As regards the ‘finger of blame’...the fact is that some countries, ironically China included, appear to have proved much better at managing the virus than others.
Unfortunately the Trump (you call him what you want ) led USA and the UK have, according to all the statistics, been amongst the worst performers in terms of managing the impact of the pandemic upon our two countries. That is, sadly, just inescapable fact.
Fortunately our Government has gone some way to redeeming itself via its management of the vaccine.
So, ultimately it’s just a case of credit and criticism where it’s due.
HMG appears to deserve credit for the actions it has taken in relation to supply and distribution of the vaccine since the turn of the year and hopefully that will continue to be the case.
It also deserves condemnation and criticism for the shambolic series of contradictions and U turns that typified its performance for much of 2020.

Not disagreeing with your latter bits. Not sure if you subscribe to the gov.U.K. ‘Court of public opinion’ website (sorry not sure of the exact name I’m on my phone), I am and it’s enlightening - when asked the question ‘should HMG have closed our national borders in Spring 2020) 93% so far have responded ‘yes’! I think that is HMGs biggest **** up of many

[MadAmster]

Not disagreeing with your latter bits. Not sure if you subscribe to the gov.U.K. ‘Court of public opinion’ website (sorry not sure of the exact name I’m on my phone), I am and it’s enlightening - when asked the question ‘should HMG have closed our national borders in Spring 2020) 93% so far have responded ‘yes’! I think that is HMGs biggest **** up of many

I don't think the % would have been much different if asked 9 or 10 months ago during the first lockdown.

[Ram59]

Not disagreeing with your latter bits. Not sure if you subscribe to the gov.U.K. ‘Court of public opinion’ website (sorry not sure of the exact name I’m on my phone), I am and it’s enlightening - when asked the question ‘should HMG have closed our national borders in Spring 2020) 93% so far have responded ‘yes’! I think that is HMGs biggest **** up of many

Should the UK have controlled the borders much more in the spring of 2020, yes definitely. But, fully closing them would have been impossible.

I am sick of the media comparing us with the likes of New Zealand in this matter. Pre covid, New Zealand had about 80,000 people per day passing through 4 airports. The UK's figure was around 1 million per day through many airports and ports. Those going to airports are easier to cope with, because they're going through a more strict control, especially in New Zealand, and can be placed on coaches for transferring to hotels. In the UK we have the very difficult problem with around a 100,000 using our ports and the eurotunnel, each day, many of these arriving in their own vehicles and can't simply be placed on a coach. Then you have all of the lorries and vans arriving with all sorts of perishable and non-perishable goods, to consider. What could we have done with them, remember, there are no lorry loads of goods going to New Zealand, it's just ridiculous to compare the two.

That's where we have the issue now. Many are calling for 100% hotel quarantine now, but surely there has to be exceptions, so where do you draw the line? SAGE advises that only by closing the borders will we prevent new strains, but how do we get supplies in and how do we know that these variants aren't already here?

[Andy_Faber]

Should the UK have controlled the borders much more in the spring of 2020, yes definitely. But, fully closing them would have been impossible.

I am sick of the media comparing us with the likes of New Zealand in this matter. Pre covid, New Zealand had about 80,000 people per day passing through 4 airports. The UK's figure was around 1 million per day through many airports and ports. Those going to airports are easier to cope with, because they're going through a more strict control, especially in New Zealand, and can be placed on coaches for transferring to hotels. In the UK we have the very difficult problem with around a 100,000 using our ports and the eurotunnel, each day, many of these arriving in their own vehicles and can't simply be placed on a coach. Then you have all of the lorries and vans arriving with all sorts of perishable and non-perishable goods, to consider. What could we have done with them, remember, there are no lorry loads of goods going to New Zealand, it's just ridiculous to compare the two.

That's where we have the issue now. Many are calling for 100% hotel quarantine now, but surely there has to be exceptions, so where do you draw the line? SAGE advises that only by closing the borders will we prevent new strains, but how do we get supplies in and how do we know that these variants aren't already here?

Agree with the NZ thing Ram, but I still think HMG could have done more earlier.

[ramAnag]

Agree with the NZ thing Ram, but I still think HMG could have done more earlier.

The NZ thing is a ‘red herring’ that I haven’t seen mentioned by anyone on here.

On the subject of borders, apparently Grant Shapps claimed yesterday that...we couldn’t close our borders because, unlike Australia, we’re an island! I give up!

On a brighter note...just had a phone call from my surgery inviting me for a first Covid jab on Saturday. Like many, Adi and Andy apart, I’m in the 65-70 cohort so others may be called soon. Very organised...asked relevant questions and to turn up five minutes before the ‘jab time’ wearing accessible clothing. Impressive and earlier than expected.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"accessible clothing! That will be fun for a motorbike rider such as I. Not heard anything yet, they must be getting through them faster in Derbyshire, unless you have a younger average population than commuterbelt Surrey

[Andy_Faber]

The NZ thing is a ‘red herring’ that I haven’t seen mentioned by anyone on here.

On the subject of borders, apparently Grant Shapps claimed yesterday that...we couldn’t close our borders because, unlike Australia, we’re an island! I give up!

On a brighter note...just had a phone call from my surgery inviting me for a first Covid jab on Saturday. Like many, Adi and Andy apart, I’m in the 65-70 cohort so others may be called soon. Very organised...asked relevant questions and to turn up five minutes before the ‘jab time’ wearing accessible clothing. Impressive and earlier than expected.

That’s great news rA, be brave and enjoy the lolly they’ll give you

Edit maybe we can get them to administer to ‘difficult to get to’ GP the way Stevie Nicks used to receive her Cocaine...

[Ram59]

The NZ thing is a ‘red herring’ that I haven’t seen mentioned by anyone on here.

On the subject of borders, apparently Grant Shapps claimed yesterday that...we couldn’t close our borders because, unlike Australia, we’re an island! I give up!

On a brighter note...just had a phone call from my surgery inviting me for a first Covid jab on Saturday. Like many, Adi and Andy apart, I’m in the 65-70 cohort so others may be called soon. Very organised...asked relevant questions and to turn up five minutes before the ‘jab time’ wearing accessible clothing. Impressive and earlier than expected.

You really are starting to annoy, RA. We were discussing whether we should have closed the national borders last spring and now there are calls for the same thing. I mentioned how stupid that the media kept comparing our situation with that of New Zealand and why couldn't we close our borders just like them?

Likewise with comparing us with Australia, in numbers alone we vastly differ, but the biggest difference is how goods come into the country. We have thousands of lorries and vans arriving every day through our ports and tunnel, bringing ***** foods and supplies, how would you deal with them? 100% of food and supplies entering Australia and New Zealand, do so via air freight or on container ships and don't come with a driver.

Much is being made of SAGE 'advising' the government to close the border, a slight twisting of the truth. SAGE advised the government that the only way to stop new variants was to close the borders, no sugar Sherlock!

It's like me advising MM, the only way to guarantee promotion, is to sign Liverpool's manager and first team squad, obvious not possible.