O/T:- Is this the worst PM since the war?

[forwardmagpie]

When Tories talk about Blair it always reminds me that the vast majority of their MPs voted FOR the most stupid thing he did.

What did they base their voting decision on BFP?

You should also try reading thr book reviewed by the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...goslett-review

[Elite_Pie]

I however can’t remember seeing the data on lockdown, PPE, test and trace, face coverings, care homes and foreign arrivals on this site. In order to further educate myself could you be so kind as to post me the link where you got the above information that compared the UK to the countries you stated fared best using your criteria.

As you well know, I doubt there is specific data anywhere on each individual area, which is why I said "the countries that have fared best regarding case numbers and death rates tended to do the following". If you think they didn't, then feel free to provide data to the contrary. If you can propose a counter argument suggesting we reacted better than most, I would love to read it. I think both of us know you can't.

You have also yet to state which countries fared best?

I don't need to. It's there on the link that you claim to read daily. Again, if you can prove it's 'fake news', then please do so.

[BigFatPie]

What did they base their voting decision on BFP?

You should also try reading thr book reviewed by the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...goslett-review

It’s amazing, 1m people thought it was a stupid idea to invade Iraq regardless of any dossier. So did the er Liberal Democrats.

Just think, the Tories voted FOR the Iraq war, but AGAINST the introduction of a national minimum wage. Phenomenally stupid.

[forwardmagpie]

It’s amazing, 1m people thought it was a stupid idea to invade Iraq regardless of any dossier. So did the er Liberal Democrats.

Just think, the Tories voted FOR the Iraq war, but AGAINST the introduction of a national minimum wage. Phenomenally stupid.

So you have no comment on the book BFP?

[forwardmagpie]

This is the first website that came up when I did a Google search. I'd never heard of it before and can't be arsed to look in detail as to whether it has any political bias, but the death numbers seem pretty damning to me. Feel free to discredit it if you can:

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...20%22countries

I know Boris wanted us to be a leader in Europe, but I don't think he had the number of deaths in mind.

I think the site is excellent Elite I am surprised you have only just found it. I am pleased you accept that you just guessed using case numbers and deaths but ignoring population and data of when the measures you quote were actually introduced.

Just reading deaths Elite doesn’t really tell the full story does it, it’s a problem with statistics it can depend on which one you choose.

For example in North and Western Europe

Deaths per million of population - top 10
San Marino
Belgium
Andorra
Spain
UK
Italy
Sweden
France
Netherlands
Ireland

Who is running San Marino they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

Total cases - highest - top 10
Spain
France
UK
Italy
Germany
Belgium
Netherlands
Sweden
Portugal
Switzerland

Spain not doing well again

Total cases per million of population
San Marino
Andorra
Spain
Luxembourg
Gibraltar
Sweden
Belgium
Portugal
France
Ireland

Most tests per million of population - top 10
Andorra
Monaco
Gibraltar
Luxembourg
Channel Islands
Denmark
UK
Belgium
Portugal
Spain

No sign of Germany

I don’t suggest we have reacted better than most we certainly haven’t but you appear to only focus on one statistic.

Apologies if there are any errors in the above it’s not easy on a phone !

[BigFatPie]

So you have no comment on the book BFP?

Not really, no. Lots of questions about Kelly’s death at the time, there still are. I was against the invasion of Iraq, were you?

[forwardmagpie]

Not really, no. Lots of questions about Kelly’s death at the time, there still are. I was against the invasion of Iraq, were you?

Very much against it BFP, it is a great regret that although living in London I wasn’t able to be part of the 2003 million person march against the illegal invasion of Iraq. The world did not become a safer place!

[Elite_Pie]

I think the site is excellent Elite I am surprised you have only just found it. I am pleased you accept that you just guessed using case numbers and deaths but ignoring population and data of when the measures you quote were actually introduced.

Just reading deaths Elite doesn’t really tell the full story does it, it’s a problem with statistics it can depend on which one you choose.

For example in North and Western Europe

Deaths per million of population - top 10
San Marino
Belgium
Andorra
Spain
UK
Italy
Sweden
France
Netherlands
Ireland

Who is running San Marino they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

Total cases - highest - top 10
Spain
France
UK
Italy
Germany
Belgium
Netherlands
Sweden
Portugal
Switzerland

Spain not doing well again

Total cases per million of population
San Marino
Andorra
Spain
Luxembourg
Gibraltar
Sweden
Belgium
Portugal
France
Ireland

Most tests per million of population - top 10
Andorra
Monaco
Gibraltar
Luxembourg
Channel Islands
Denmark
UK
Belgium
Portugal
Spain

No sign of Germany

I don’t suggest we have reacted better than most we certainly haven’t but you appear to only focus on one statistic.

Apologies if there are any errors in the above it’s not easy on a phone !

I have no reason to doubt your figures and can't be arsed to check them, because the main point of my post wasn't particularly about numbers, it was more about the decisions made by Boris Johnson (or Dominic Cummings if you want to discount his puppet). I mentioned a few key areas where I thought the government had failed badly, which were:

Imposed an early lockdown.
Devised a program to test, track and trace.
Sourced PPE early so key workers were protected.
Advised that face coverings were worn to slow the spread.
Realised that care homes were high-risk areas and took extra precautions.
Stopped foreign arrivals coming in untested.

If you think I've been unfair and that the government have done well in any of those areas, please tell me your reasons why.

[forwardmagpie]

I have no reason to doubt your figures and can't be arsed to check them, because the main point of my post wasn't particularly about numbers, it was more about the decisions made by Boris Johnson (or Dominic Cummings if you want to discount his puppet). I mentioned a few key areas where I thought the government had failed badly, which were:

Imposed an early lockdown.
Devised a program to test, track and trace.
Sourced PPE early so key workers were protected.
Advised that face coverings were worn to slow the spread.
Realised that care homes were high-risk areas and took extra precautions.
Stopped foreign arrivals coming in untested.

If you think I've been unfair and that the government have done well in any of those areas, please tell me your reasons why.

Your main point was how other countries (although you decline to say which ones) that carried out the above sooner have fared better.

You produced no evidence of when these countries (that you didn’t name) carried out these measures.

Your only statistic is total deaths. In that way of thinking India is the 2nd worst country in the world although in deaths per million they are 78th in the world (obviously that is based as all these figures are on the data provided).

Your view is probably why I have stayed out of this debate even though I don’t think that we have handled the pandemic well. I don’t think that all ministers will be shown to have done a great job but do you think PHE will come out if this looking good when we have had the enquiry.

[Elite_Pie]

Your main point was how other countries (although you decline to say which ones) that carried out the above sooner have fared better.

You produced no evidence of when these countries (that you didn’t name) carried out these measures.

Your only statistic is total deaths. In that way of thinking India is the 2nd worst country in the world although in deaths per million they are 78th in the world (obviously that is based as all these figures are on the data provided).

Your view is probably why I have stayed out of this debate even though I don’t think that we have handled the pandemic well. I don’t think that all ministers will be shown to have done a great job but do you think PHE will come out if this looking good when we have had the enquiry.

As I'm sure you're aware, there are loads of stats on the worldometer website site regarding cases, deaths per million inhabitants, and loads more that can be filtered as you choose. I was trying not to get bogged down by numbers, because you can usually cherry pick certain stats to suit whatever argument you want to present. We seem to agree that the government handling has been poor (very poor in my case), and when the inquiry has taken place I can't anyone in authority coming out of it looking good.