O/T Coronavirus Thread (5)

[John2]

The New World Trauma in a nutshell.

Believe and quote the data that suits your own world view, whilst dismissing any data that doesn't as conspiricies followed by "sheeple".

Take a bow GM Trump

GM was just trying to be funny/on the wind up I think. I don't think he's actually that daft.

[Brin]

With all this Covid, I've been washing my hands so much, I've discovered a stamp from a nightclub from 30 years ago!

[the_idiotb_stardson]

This is not an answer, it is just more conspiratorial garbage to avoid answering the actual question... how do you explain all these other countries adopting the same strategy?

I know people who worked on the front line, I know someone who has been in intensive care with the virus, I know someone suffering from long covid. Are they making these experiences up?

But you didn't answer my question.

There is a virus, never denied that.

It is nasty , never denied that (see my countless other posts outlining this).

The scandal is in the exaggeration of the statistics.

I also know 2 people suffering from covid. i know a lot lot more suffering from anxiety due to lockdown and the fear mongering and others who have missed crucial hospital treatment.


What about the nurses who have been sacked for saying their hospitals were empty?

I happen to know a person who was pressured by to accept covid on a death certificate even though it wasn't the cause of death in order to not have to wait a long time for a burial.

An other, a lifelong asthmatic, went in for treatment and was told later they had been treated for covid even though they had a 14 previous hospital visits with the same asthmatic condition.


Are we saying your anecdotal evidence is more reliable than mine?


Your rational approach, and your detailed analysis is excellent but always stops at who is making money from this? Who is funding the media that promotes these scares?

Surely financial gain and the pursuit of power is a variable that has to be included?

How can we trust what Vallance says when potentially a vaccination produced by GSK would make him a millionaire?


Do you think Faucci is squeaky clean John?

[John2]

The scandal is in the exaggeration of the statistics.

No, it's not. I read the same statistics as you, I know on paper it doesn't seem "that bad", low death rate compared to what it could be, seasonal flu kills more etc.

The thing I understand which you seem to be missing is exponential growth.

The numbers don't look that bad because we've taken steps to prevent this from occuring. The rate that the numbers were growing were astronomical and without intervention would have completely overwhelmed the NHS.

What about the nurses who have been sacked for saying their hospitals were empty?

What about them?

I happen to know a person who was pressured by to accept covid on a death certificate even though it wasn't the cause of death in order to not have to wait a long time for a burial.

I'm sure there is more to this, but even if not, it still doesn't really prove a conspiracy. Who benefits from this?

Are we saying your anecdotal evidence is more reliable than mine?

I'm saying your anecdotal evidence doesn't really demonstrate a big conspiracy, which is the point of contention.

Your rational approach, and your detailed analysis is excellent but always stops at who is making money from this? Who is funding the media that promotes these scares?

The media is funded by people who buy it. Newspapers are incentivised to sensationalise.

I don't really consume much mainstream media, or headlines, but there is overwhelming global consensus in all countries, allies and enemies alike, with a free press, or an authoritarian regime, that this thing is serious.

Valance may well profit from his shares in GSK. But that's a simple conflict of interest, it doesn't really undermine his position which is in line with ALL OTHER COUNTRIES.

What does Iran have to gain financially?

Surely financial gain and the pursuit of power is a variable that has to be included?

If you're looking for a conspiracy, this is an excellent motivation. However the number of people who would profit from this is so tiny, and the number of people who lose out is so huge, that your theory makes no sense. It's as daft as people who believe the earth is flat and NASA is funded to trick everyone. Nobody seems to be able to justify the immense cost of this pointless exercise.

It is unlikely the drug companies will make much money from the vaccine, a number of them have pledged to not make a profit at all.

If you think there is a big conspiracy, you've got to give more detail, what are you suggesting has been done, and who exactly do you think is benefitting? And why hasn't everyone else managed to recognise what is happening and stop it? Why do only the tinfoil hat wearers who believe everything they read on social media and youtube believe it, but medical experts remain unconvinced?

There are reasonable disagreements about the extent of what controls should be implemented, but that's not what seems to be your big concern. Do you think the government wants to close pubs at 10pm? Do you think they want to keep subsidising billions in wages? Do you think these decisions are taken lightly?

You're trying to be open minded, but you're being so open minded your brain has fallen out and you're seeing things which aren't there.

Do you think Faucci is squeaky clean John?

It's of no relevance to me, he is not a source of information I pay much attention to, but he seems fairly credible.

[KerrAvon]

I'm a GSK and an AstraZeneca shareholder, IBS.

There really isn't a deal of money to be made in vaccines. The developement costs are high and, if they work, they are only administered a few times through a person's life.

The real money is in chronic illness. The likes of asthma and diabetes are big money spinners.

I think that you are getting sidetracked by the money argument (on Twitter, they seem to be favoured by people with #JC4PM in their profiles - lol). There are valid questions to be asked. As you point out, the nature of science is that there will be a spectrum of views on any given issue and Covid is no exception. In addition, the science changes as more becomes known about a subject. I think it beyond doubt that the fatality rate for Covid is nowhere near that which was feared at the outset, for example.

The problem with 'following the science' is that there should be an economic and social issue input into our response (in addition to the ever present political one). Lockdowns have serious adverse consequences and there ought to be an open debate about where the balance should lie.

[gm_gm]

I'm a GSK and an AstraZeneca shareholder, IBS.

There really isn't a deal of money to be made in vaccines. The developement costs are high and, if they work, they are only administered a few times through a person's life.

The real money is in chronic illness. The likes of asthma and diabetes are big money spinners.

I think that you are getting sidetracked by the money argument (on Twitter, they seem to be favoured by people with #JC4PM in their profiles - lol). There are valid questions to be asked. As you point out, the nature of science is that there will be a spectrum of views on any given issue and Covid is no exception. In addition, the science changes as more becomes known about a subject. I think it beyond doubt that the fatality rate for Covid is nowhere near that which was feared at the outset, for example.

The problem with 'following the science' is that there should be an economic and social issue input into our response (in addition to the ever present political one). Lockdowns have serious adverse consequences and there ought to be an open debate about where the balance should lie.

I hold GSK, Astra, and five other Pharma research shares, GSK is still 18% down this year and unless Vallance cashed in on May the 14th he wont have made a fortune yet. however, I dont agree Kerr that if a vaccine is found the share price wont climb, I think it surge past its high of 1843 to 2,000+

[Shark27]

Regarding the scientists. Back in March we were being told that face masks don't really have much effect.

Now we are being told to wear one when you stand up in a pub.

This strikes me as though some people either don't have a clue what they are doing or they were not telling us (In the hope of herd immunity) otherwise we would have been advised to wear a covering from the beginning.

Surely if some of these people are paid hundreds of thousands they should at least have had the knowledge/research available for the basics I.e. benefits of face coverings.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

So the lockdown rally is closed down for not obeying rules.

BLM and ER allowed to take place (vandalism included)

Why was today's protest any different?

Please explain.

[sota]

Florida Governor just lifted all covid restrictions. Interesting to see what happens now seeing as it’s the start of tourist season.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I'm a GSK and an AstraZeneca shareholder, IBS.

There really isn't a deal of money to be made in vaccines. The developement costs are high and, if they work, they are only administered a few times through a person's life.

The real money is in chronic illness. The likes of asthma and diabetes are big money spinners.

I think that you are getting sidetracked by the money argument (on Twitter, they seem to be favoured by people with #JC4PM in their profiles - lol). There are valid questions to be asked. As you point out, the nature of science is that there will be a spectrum of views on any given issue and Covid is no exception. In addition, the science changes as more becomes known about a subject. I think it beyond doubt that the fatality rate for Covid is nowhere near that which was feared at the outset, for example.

The problem with 'following the science' is that there should be an economic and social issue input into our response (in addition to the ever present political one). Lockdowns have serious adverse consequences and there ought to be an open debate about where the balance should lie.

An excellent post Kerr, if you don't mind me saying so.

I would welcome a debate on the whole issue. Too many views by experts, qualified intelligent experts, have been ignored.