Bums on seats

[Rev72]

Bad,but also very very sad as well.

Would not surprise me if we don't see the old normal for a few more seasons with the way things are going.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Announcements from a lot of sports this morning suggest a lot of clubs simply won’t survive.

Despite this the Bundesliga finds a way to get fans back to matches.

The cure being put forward by the government to deal with the problems seem worse than the problem without suggesting that the problem is not significant.

[spaldy]

Oz,

don't blame the aussies for teaching the chinese. There's always some country willing to sell them technology for 30 pieces of silver so they can continue their world domination execution plan.

that's the thing about autocratic regimes. They have few, if any, original thoughts or creativity. They spend it all on brainwashing their masses to be subservient and prostrate themselves to their rulers. However, they are very good at stealing ideas and objects from others.
Of course, we willingly help them by buying the cheap junk they produce just so we can save a little money. Pay no attention to the human suffering and enviromental damage they do to the world.

This will likely end up much worse than all of us missing a couple of football matches in person or 1/2 a million people dying. if we sit back and let them release this virus on the world, hide in our basements and do nothing about it then a whole lot worse will come down the pipeline. Autocrats never back down until someone makes them back down. I think we've gone through this excercise sometime in the middle of last century.

I think closing up the world, and football matches, sends a very bad message to the chinese just like the Sudentland did 80 years ago.

[Tichi1]

No-one who has lost a loved one (myself included), is seeking to minimise the devastation that loss can wreak on family and friends, but.........how much greater the devastation on ALL families, ALL friendships, ALL of society WILL BE when governments adopt policies based on quasi-science (e.g the social distances distance, different the world over irrespective of it being a reaction to a single virus), and a pandering to our dear friends in "da meedja, bruv"?

Rates if infection are, and always have been, irrelevant. Death rates are what we should be respectful of and should decide policy. For those aged under 20, as far as I know, only 1 death in the UK has been recorded as due to Covid alone. For those over 70 it's in the thousands. Say again, Sweden has it right, protect and if necessary isolate those truly at risk of serious illness or death, for the rest if us (and I'm 64 and count myself in "the rest"), we are the barrier between those at risk and the virus, but only if we have beaten the sh1t out if it first. I have, and I'm not special, ir brave, just a better shield against this sh1tty thing and my neighbours, family and friends than any mask will ever be.

Tens of thousands have already died in the UK alone because cancer diagnosis and treatments have been delayed, surgery for life-threatening but ultimately survivable conditions postponed, and tens of thousands more WILL die because we have spineless, incompetent numb skulls in government and more importantly we, the people, have ceded the responsibility for making our own risk assessments to those same incompetents, shame on us.

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments, where do you get the "Tens of thousands have already died in the UK alone because cancer diagnosis and treatments have been delayed, surgery for life-threatening but ultimately survivable conditions postponed" from? I cannot find any stats backing that up anywhere?
Exageration doesn't help make your point.

[Tichi1]

Bad,but also very very sad as well.

Would not surprise me if we don't see the old normal for a few more seasons with the way things are going.

There will then be a new normal Rev , and one that I am not looking forward to TBH

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

There are some stats out there Tichi - need to know where to look but no specific precise figures on cancer/heart related deaths.

There are some interesting figures around hospital admissions, deaths in hospitals and deaths at home. Those suggest (but I haven’t seen the underlying data which would break it down) that there could be an issue which requires investigation.

Anyone who dies is a death to mourn and be concerned about but lots of people die each year from a variety of causes - cancer, heart disease, respiratory disease, car accidents, flu.

There seems to be very little consideration of those figures and how they compare to COVID deaths or indeed how COVID measures may impact the deaths from other causes. To the extent there has been it is certainly not being shared.

Some other EU countries seem to be taking a more considered approach and explaining it to their citizens. Nordic countries and Germany being good examples.

I know of people who had chemo paused due to COVID and have only been seen in the last few weeks to be told that their cancer had spread. One will never know truly if they had chemo earlier it would have had an effect but they are left feeling that their life was not as valuable.

Hard problems but that is the territory politicians occupy and my feeling is the current crop of all persuasions are not really up to the challenge.

Surely the public needed to be better informed and have more input into the changes being put in place that will affect the next generation for years to come.

It’s all very very depressing.

People cannot pause their lives indefinitely but that looks to be the short term future.

[WTF11]

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments, where do you get the "Tens of thousands have already died in the UK alone because cancer diagnosis and treatments have been delayed, surgery for life-threatening but ultimately survivable conditions postponed" from? I cannot find any stats backing that up anywhere?
Exageration doesn't help make your point.

I'm not exaggerrating.

As an example, please refer to:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...388-0/fulltext

This study relates ONLY to FOUR cancer types, and reaches a conclusion that over 3,500 "excess deaths" resulting from them are down to the results of NHS responses to the pandemic, i.e the suspension of cancer SCREENING and the impact that has had on diagnosis etc. (Been there, done it, got the f00king baseball cap etc etc. I know what delays do to aggressive cancer survival prospects).

The study doesn't take into account those who simply haven't presented themselves for screening because of fears over catching Covid in hospital, or the thought that "It's nothing and the hospitals are so busy with Covid patients". If we take daily death rates as crude indicator of how many people SHOULD be presenting themselves. That daily death rate is around 450/day or 81,000 since lockdown began. If only 10% might have been prevented by the person at least presenting themselves, then we're into 5-figure territory, and none of the figures I quote are "worst case" far from it.


Another source;

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...ry-covid-.html

This makes specific reference to the number of "excess deaths" from delayed surgery (or surgery required because other interventions such as chemotherapy, were delayed past the point where they would have been effective), and to the net effect of "life years" lost per cancer patient where surgery is delayed, vs the life years lost when a Covid patient succumbs to the disease.

Any way you look at it, the current policies, and the "headless chicken" government that develops/mandates them, are worse than the disease they are supposed to be addressing.

And another;

https://www.hdruk.ac.uk/news/the-big...19-its-cancer/

[Tichi1]

I'm not exaggerrating.

As an example, please refer to:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...388-0/fulltext

This study relates ONLY to FOUR cancer types, and reaches a conclusion that over 3,500 "excess deaths" resulting from them are down to the results of NHS responses to the pandemic, i.e the suspension of cancer SCREENING and the impact that has had on diagnosis etc. (Been there, done it, got the f00king baseball cap etc etc. I know what delays do to aggressive cancer survival prospects).

The study doesn't take into account those who simply haven't presented themselves for screening because of fears over catching Covid in hospital, or the thought that "It's nothing and the hospitals are so busy with Covid patients". If we take daily death rates as crude indicator of how many people SHOULD be presenting themselves. That daily death rate is around 450/day or 81,000 since lockdown began. If only 10% might have been prevented by the person at least presenting themselves, then we're into 5-figure territory, and none of the figures I quote are "worst case" far from it.


Another source;

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...ry-covid-.html

This makes specific reference to the number of "excess deaths" from delayed surgery (or surgery required because other interventions such as chemotherapy, were delayed past the point where they would have been effective), and to the net effect of "life years" lost per cancer patient where surgery is delayed, vs the life years lost when a Covid patient succumbs to the disease.

Any way you look at it, the current policies, and the "headless chicken" government that develops/mandates them, are worse than the disease they are supposed to be addressing.

And another;

https://www.hdruk.ac.uk/news/the-big...19-its-cancer/

I take back my comments about this - you have provided enough evidence to confirm your orioginal point..appoligies.

As stated above I agree with the sentiment that life has to go on despite Covid, and that we cannot allow this fear to prevent us living our daily lives, and yes we do need to work out how to help and keep the vulnerable safe, but not at the expense of everything else.

We agree on something at last!

[WTF11]

I take back my comments about this - you have provided enough evidence to confirm your orioginal point..appoligies.

As stated above I agree with the sentiment that life has to go on despite Covid, and that we cannot allow this fear to prevent us living our daily lives, and yes we do need to work out how to help and keep the vulnerable safe, but not at the expense of everything else.

We agree on something at last!

Had to be something!😉

[Rev72]

WTF and Tichi have actually agreed on something...just gonna check this,




Yep..its finally happened..hope for WTF and Blanco..or maybe not