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Thread: 58% and rising

  1. #21
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    Islay. It isn't all about economics for those who think independence is essential. There are cultural and moral issues which are very important to some supporters. I think that the economic argument is more important but even the numbers that I think are relevant are hotly disputed by independence supporters. Telling people what to think is a mistake IMO. Asking for their reasons for thinking we will be better off financially as an independent country might help us to understand why they have the views that they do.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric_sinclair View Post
    An independant Scotland does not mean forever governed by the snp tho. As for currency, use the pound or the euro. I get some voters have fears over their jobs etc I get that. But some fowk just like to think that even if it costs a bit extra in tax we could go it alone. I find it hard to believe we are the only small country that requires a union.
    If it goes to a 2nd vote. We can all vote what we see best for our and our kids future,if my job was in jeapordy I would vote to remain.
    There will be no SNP in an independent Scotland. All the SNP supporters will return to the party they previously supported which means that it will be a Labour Government forever more.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by grantzer View Post
    It's a question of how terrible, she is no trump and no bojo.

    Having said that,most politicians are much of a muchness, regardless of what they do in their own bedrooms
    When they start teaching it on our schools, no sorry not for me, when they start teaching theirs more than 2 genders, sorry not for me, when they start teaching penguin history no sorry not for me., when they start issuing quotas based on religion colour or ***uality, sorry not for me. When they send the thought police to arrest someone for insulting Nicola, sorry not for me, when they make women Muslims and homo***uals protected sorry not for me.

    They ain't much of a muchness except in Hollyrood.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCram View Post
    Islay. It isn't all about economics for those who think independence is essential. There are cultural and moral issues which are very important to some supporters. I think that the economic argument is more important but even the numbers that I think are relevant are hotly disputed by independence supporters. Telling people what to think is a mistake IMO. Asking for their reasons for thinking we will be better off financially as an independent country might help us to understand why they have the views that they do.
    Telling people what to think is what the SNP, specialise in

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCram View Post
    Islay. It isn't all about economics for those who think independence is essential. There are cultural and moral issues which are very important to some supporters. I think that the economic argument is more important but even the numbers that I think are relevant are hotly disputed by independence supporters. Telling people what to think is a mistake IMO. Asking for their reasons for thinking we will be better off financially as an independent country might help us to understand why they have the views that they do.
    Last Thursday I was sitting in the waiting room at Glenford in Forfar where my car was undergoing a very minor repair.
    Also sitting there was a young lad aged about 20 who was also waiting for his car.
    We had a discussion and he admitted that he was not sure about whether Scotland becoming an independent country was a good idea or not.
    I explained that an independent Scotland would no longer receive there annual grant from the Westminster Government and all the perks that people throughout Scptland enjoy compared to people in England under the rules of the Barnett Formula could end.
    He told me that he had never heard of the Barnett Formula. I told him that an independent Scotland would not be like living in Brigadoon and he replied that he had never heard of Brigadoon.
    This is the problem.
    People like this person do not have a clue about the perils of Scptland becoming an independent country and they will be the ones who will have to pick up the pieces if it all goes wrong.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by islaydarkblue View Post
    Last Thursday I was sitting in the waiting room at Glenford in Forfar where my car was undergoing a very minor repair.
    Also sitting there was a young lad aged about 20 who was also waiting for his car.
    We had a discussion and he admitted that he was not sure about whether Scotland becoming an independent country was a good idea or not.
    I explained that an independent Scotland would no longer receive there annual grant from the Westminster Government and all the perks that people throughout Scptland enjoy compared to people in England under the rules of the Barnett Formula could end.
    He told me that he had never heard of the Barnett Formula. I told him that an independent Scotland would not be like living in Brigadoon and he replied that he had never heard of Brigadoon.
    This is the problem.
    People like this person do not have a clue about the perils of Scptland becoming an independent country and they will be the ones who will have to pick up the pieces if it all goes wrong.
    Scotland would receive nothing from Westminster under the Barnett Formula or any other grant because it would be independent of Westminster and would not be contributing to the UK treasury. We'd have our own treasury managing Scotland's finances based on Scottish tax payers' contributions and not on what some old English MP thought we deserved out of jolly old England's treasury - that we support from Scotland through taxation.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Returnofrros View Post
    When they start teaching it on our schools, no sorry not for me, when they start teaching theirs more than 2 genders, sorry not for me, when they start teaching penguin history no sorry not for me., when they start issuing quotas based on religion colour or ***uality, sorry not for me. When they send the thought police to arrest someone for insulting Nicola, sorry not for me, when they make women Muslims and homo***uals protected sorry not for me.

    They ain't much of a muchness except in Hollyrood.
    How much of that really affects you? I don't spend my days worrying about what they teach kids at school, I don't feel like I am being discriminated against, and I don't know anyone who has been arrested for not liking Nicola sturgeon. As for the more than two genders, I agree completely,but at the same time,if someone wants to make up a gender and tell me that's what they are,then great,they can call themselves anything if it makes them happy

    Most of that is not exclusive to Scotland tho, the world changes constantly. Some changes are good,others maybe not so much. Imagine a world where there is no autocorrect and every time you try to type the world Scotland it comes up scptland...

    I reckon,on balance, the SNP have done an ok job,they could improve,but that is also the case for governments all over the world.

    Independence might make them more accountable,with a Labour party freed from the shackles from the south. It might make them less accountable if they get independence and follow it up with a landslide in an election.

    It might just be that independence makes no real difference either way,same as Brexit probably won't either

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    Scotland would receive nothing from Westminster under the Barnett Formula or any other grant because it would be independent of Westminster and would not be contributing to the UK treasury. We'd have our own treasury managing Scotland's finances based on Scottish tax payers' contributions and not on what some old English MP thought we deserved out of jolly old England's treasury - that we support from Scotland through taxation.
    This statement worries me. I think we will have a share of the national debt that has been run up already. How do we pay for pensions that are already in payment. The public sector pensions are not funded. The money comes in from taxes and goes out to pay pensions. There is no massive public sector pension fund just waiting to be divided up between England and Scotland. I think it would be helpful if the total value of public sector pensions paid each month will bes
    so large it would mean an independent Scotland could not possibly pay. It would be helpful if this figure is known. I have nothing against public sector pensions. I am using them because I believe that the figure will be known and I think it will provide a good example why we will not escape Scot free!

  9. #29
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCram View Post
    This statement worries me. I think we will have a share of the national debt that has been run up already. How do we pay for pensions that are already in payment. The public sector pensions are not funded. The money comes in from taxes and goes out to pay pensions. There is no massive public sector pension fund just waiting to be divided up between England and Scotland. I think it would be helpful if the total value of public sector pensions paid each month will bes
    so large it would mean an independent Scotland could not possibly pay. It would be helpful if this figure is known. I have nothing against public sector pensions. I am using them because I believe that the figure will be known and I think it will provide a good example why we will not escape Scot free!
    If we have a share of the national debt,we would surely get a share of everything else,pension fund included?

  10. #30
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    Jul 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCram View Post
    This statement worries me. I think we will have a share of the national debt that has been run up already. How do we pay for pensions that are already in payment. The public sector pensions are not funded. The money comes in from taxes and goes out to pay pensions. There is no massive public sector pension fund just waiting to be divided up between England and Scotland. I think it would be helpful if the total value of public sector pensions paid each month will bes
    so large it would mean an independent Scotland could not possibly pay. It would be helpful if this figure is known. I have nothing against public sector pensions. I am using them because I believe that the figure will be known and I think it will provide a good example why we will not escape Scot free!
    We're already responsible for our proportion of the national debt, it won't be like a bank calling in the debt right now in the event of independence, it would crack on increasing same as it will if we stick with the union.

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