Who will lead the line against Watford?

[MadAmster]

We got £12M from the sales of Bogle, Lowe and Bennett. That will cover about 9 weeks of the squad wages at a guess.

No crowds so no gate income so we have no money to buy the players we might want.

Then there was the FA charges of which we were found not guilty. The result took far too long and would have discouraged possible signings.... even if we had the wherewithall to buy them. There has also been talk of us having been under a partial or virtual embargo, the detail of which I haven't seen but if there was one, we can't slate Cocu for that.

We are still on the limits of FFP so, unless Mel buys, or gets someone else to buy, Moor Farm and lease it back to the club, that will also be the situation in January.

Might the reason for the lack of spending, the inability to match Martin's wants, the lack of real quality coming in, be simply down to the club only having 2 and 6 in the kitty? If lack of cash is the reason, I don't see how anyone could reasonably criticise Cocu for not getting better in.

As per usual, we fans see what we see, read what we read and come to conclusions based on that, knowing that there is a lot we don't know......

Before anyone decides to get on to me for being a "Cocu lover", I was not all that positive about him when he arrived. Describing his football as being "business like". As close a translation as I can get to the Dutch word "zakelijk". What we are seeing is the personification of zakelijk football as described by me in the summer of 2019.

I love the way he has brought the young uns on. He has done it in the past but the majority of his successes on that score were young uns he bought from other clubs and only 1 or 2 "of their own". At Derby we have seen a succession of young uns making their way into the first team squad on merit.

[ramAnag]

Well you have been consistent in supporting him, but is it all down to bad luck?

We have had the discussion about "drinkgate" before but I still think that it was a sign that the players didn't respect him as a manager, and recently theres been talk about the players saying they don't like his tactics, true or not its more signs that he hasn't got the respect of the players, which is worrying.

His comments after many games have been odd to my thinking, his tactics are baffling and the players he does have don't seem to understand what he wants.

In terms of where we are with players, is he a hostage of circumstance? In which case if he hasn't the influence to get what players he requires why is he still in the job?

Frankly the club has been a mess since Frank left, some blame Frank, but we have pissed money on poor players for years (or at least players that when they play for Derby are generally poor.)

We have had a poor run of results for some time now, no real sign of improvement, maybe when all are fit we might see some improvement but at this stage I'm of the view that Cocu doesn't understand what it takes to be successful in the championship and we don't have the funds to be able to get the players Cocu needs to play his style of football.

Look back at Cocu's previous managerial record, what was it that inspired Mel to appoint him, when more successful managers who knew the championship were available?

I'd go so far to say that things were more exciting under Clough Jnr and his tenure was dismal!

Yes things haven't gone Cocu's way, but overall he is still responsible for the way the team players, who is picked and presumably for letting some players go and agreeing that others be brought in.

My verdict, we won't come close to winning anything under this Dutch "master". For me its been a bad appointment and if we are still as bad by the end of November I expect to see a change of manager.

You’re right, I have supported him, I do sympathise with him, I continue to believe he’s a very knowledgeable football man but even I was left wondering after last week.

As for blame...it doesn’t really achieve much in this situation, but I’m not sure Lampard can be absolved. He MAY have been instrumental in encouraging the drinking culture that then produced the problems of 13 months ago...the bar bills and the ‘bounce’ were all a little ‘populist’ for me...but, more importantly, his transfer dealings were far from great and his handling of Marriott was very puzzling to say the least.

I think you’re probably right, in terms of games played, late November is the same as late October in any normal season...two pointless results at Huddersfield and on the banks of the Trent next week and I suspect he won’t make it to November, but for the reasons MA has stated elsewhere, I can’t see how Rooney is qualified to take over.

[swaledale]

We got £12M from the sales of Bogle, Lowe and Bennett. That will cover about 9 weeks of the squad wages at a guess.

No crowds so no gate income so we have no money to buy the players we might want.

Then there was the FA charges of which we were found not guilty. The result took far too long and would have discouraged possible signings.... even if we had the wherewithall to buy them. There has also been talk of us having been under a partial or virtual embargo, the detail of which I haven't seen but if there was one, we can't slate Cocu for that.

We are still on the limits of FFP so, unless Mel buys, or gets someone else to buy, Moor Farm and lease it back to the club, that will also be the situation in January.

Might the reason for the lack of spending, the inability to match Martin's wants, the lack of real quality coming in, be simply down to the club only having 2 and 6 in the kitty? If lack of cash is the reason, I don't see how anyone could reasonably criticise Cocu for not getting better in.

As per usual, we fans see what we see, read what we read and come to conclusions based on that, knowing that there is a lot we don't know......

Before anyone decides to get on to me for being a "Cocu lover", I was not all that positive about him when he arrived. Describing his football as being "business like". As close a translation as I can get to the Dutch word "zakelijk". What we are seeing is the personification of zakelijk football as described by me in the summer of 2019.

I love the way he has brought the young uns on. He has done it in the past but the majority of his successes on that score were young uns he bought from other clubs and only 1 or 2 "of their own". At Derby we have seen a succession of young uns making their way into the first team squad on merit.

Whilst Covid does have a bearing, on the situation, surely its the same for all clubs in this league? Except of course for those enjoying their parachute payments, but then they do have a larger wage bill unless they have relegation clauses in player contracts or have offloaded the expensive players.

So in effect what your saying is Mel has perhaps mismanaged the financial situation and Ccou is doing as well as any other manager? Sorry but I don't agree, look at the league there are teams with far less resources than us doing better. We will soon be overtaken by Weds who we had a 12 pt margin over!

By the way it was the EFL not FA that brought the charges and frankly whilst it should have been resolved sooner, there has been plenty of time to sort transfers or loans out given the domestic window has only just closed!

I'm scratching my head as to how much coaching input Rooney has? He is both inexperienced and to date theres no evidence that he is a tactical genius, can't help feeling its more of a Morris ego trip than a sensible move.

Your right Cocu certainly doesn't seem to set up teams to play fast attacking football, but I could accept that if he managed to get the team sound defensively. Unfortunately over his tenure he hasn't managed to do that.

Given we have signed new players, I don't see the failure to keep Martin as anything other than Cocu didn't fancy him but then he clearly doesn't rate Marriott either. It isn't as if we haven't spent money on players, my query is are they the right players? Having let a striker go, one might have thought getting one in would be a priority, rather than a desperate move for a "has been". I may be proven wrong but can't see Richards being the answer to our lack of goals.

But finance aside, its the evidence of how Cocu sets a team up that is most depressing, can't see that changing and while I will wait for a final judgement until we have a team with most players fit I'm not overly hopeful.

[swaledale]

You’re right, I have supported him, I do sympathise with him, I continue to believe he’s a very knowledgeable football man but even I was left wondering after last week.

As for blame...it doesn’t really achieve much in this situation, but I’m not sure Lampard can be absolved. He MAY have been instrumental in encouraging the drinking culture that then produced the problems of 13 months ago...the bar bills and the ‘bounce’ were all a little ‘populist’ for me...but, more importantly, his transfer dealings were far from great and his handling of Marriott was very puzzling to say the least.

I think you’re probably right, in terms of games played, late November is the same as late October in any normal season...two pointless results at Huddersfield and on the banks of the Trent next week and I suspect he won’t make it to November, but for the reasons MA has stated elsewhere, I can’t see how Rooney is qualified to take over.

One can be very knowledgeable about football and not be a very good manager!

Frank had one season at the club and by wheeling and dealing got the team into the Play Off final where we lost narrowly to Villa a recently relegated team. Its unfortunate for us that Chelski were in a position to offer him a job, but thats football.

His transfer dealings have certainly been no worse (and arguably with less expenditure) than the managers that preceded him, Marriott was hardly fit during his tenure (well he has been hardly fit during his time at the club) and theres a long history of Derby buying much feted players who fail to produce for the club! Not sure what evidence you have that he encouraged a "drinking culture" prior to "drinkgate" I don't remember other incidents.

Anyway this was the season you predicted the youngsters would come through, develop and we could push for promotion, so I'm very gald we didn't get into the playoffs and fluke promotion last season, I mean picking up £90 million even if we were the the prems whipping boys would have not done the clubs finances any good at all.. we'd have pissed it away on expensive ****e players!!

[Andy_Faber]

One can be very knowledgeable about football and not be a very good manager!

Frank had one season at the club and by wheeling and dealing got the team into the Play Off final where we lost narrowly to Villa a recently relegated team. Its unfortunate for us that Chelski were in a position to offer him a job, but thats football.

His transfer dealings have certainly been no worse (and arguably with less expenditure) than the managers that preceded him, Marriott was hardly fit during his tenure (well he has been hardly fit during his time at the club) and theres a long history of Derby buying much feted players who fail to produce for the club! Not sure what evidence you have that he encouraged a "drinking culture" prior to "drinkgate" I don't remember other incidents.

Anyway this was the season you predicted the youngsters would come through, develop and we could push for promotion, so I'm very gald we didn't get into the playoffs and fluke promotion last season, I mean picking up £90 million even if we were the the prems whipping boys would have not done the clubs finances any good at all.. we'd have pissed it away on expensive ****e players!!

One thing lurking in that comment suggests that 'the youngsters' haven't 'come on' as some hoped, some expected and maybe some still believe. I think the current ex academy players are miles away from the finished article and need to be 'hidden' (if thats possible in this team) one at a time in the starting line-up. I accept we are a bit short handed with injuries etc at the mo

[ramAnag]

One can be very knowledgeable about football and not be a very good manager!

Frank had one season at the club and by wheeling and dealing got the team into the Play Off final where we lost narrowly to Villa a recently relegated team. Its unfortunate for us that Chelski were in a position to offer him a job, but thats football.

His transfer dealings have certainly been no worse (and arguably with less expenditure) than the managers that preceded him, Marriott was hardly fit during his tenure (well he has been hardly fit during his time at the club) and theres a long history of Derby buying much feted players who fail to produce for the club! Not sure what evidence you have that he encouraged a "drinking culture" prior to "drinkgate" I don't remember other incidents.

Anyway this was the season you predicted the youngsters would come through, develop and we could push for promotion, so I'm very gald we didn't get into the playoffs and fluke promotion last season, I mean picking up £90 million even if we were the the prems whipping boys would have not done the clubs finances any good at all.. we'd have pissed it away on expensive ****e players!!

Not sure about Frank’s ‘wheeling and dealing’ Swale. Whatever success he had, which was no more than another unsuccessful Wembley appearance, was largely down to bringing in Tomori, Mount and Wilson on loan and having a fit leader in Keogh.
He brought us Marriott - who looked excellent for three months and then disappeared only to rediscover his confidence at Elland Road before being inexplicably dropped for Wembley - and he brought us Evans and FloJo for which I shall never be grateful.

One of the most frustrating things about being a DCFC supporter is our inability to spot and buy emerging talent at the right time.
Two examples...I distinctly remember us being strongly linked - probably during Rowett’s reign - with Ollie Watkins (then at Exeter) and local boy Che Adams. They weren’t considered good enough for us but have both recently arrived in the Premier League for combined fees of around £43m!
If only we had the ability to scout emerging, affordable and ‘hungry’ talent...but, it seems, we don’t.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Even if we did, we'd sell them cheap - it's the derby way

[Ram59]

Hopefully, our style of play will change when the match squad is made up from the likes of Lawrence, Jozwiak, Waghorn and Ibe. I'd like to think that a more match fit Rooney with those 4 playing around him at different times during each game, should give opposition defences something to think about.

[swaledale]

Not sure about Frank’s ‘wheeling and dealing’ Swale. Whatever success he had, which was no more than another unsuccessful Wembley appearance, was largely down to bringing in Tomori, Mount and Wilson on loan and having a fit leader in Keogh.
He brought us Marriott - who looked excellent for three months and then disappeared only to rediscover his confidence at Elland Road before being inexplicably dropped for Wembley - and he brought us Evans and FloJo for which I shall never be grateful.

One of the most frustrating things about being a DCFC supporter is our inability to spot and buy emerging talent at the right time.
Two examples...I distinctly remember us being strongly linked - probably during Rowett’s reign - with Ollie Watkins (then at Exeter) and local boy Che Adams. They weren’t considered good enough for us but have both recently arrived in the Premier League for combined fees of around £43m!
If only we had the ability to scout emerging, affordable and ‘hungry’ talent...but, it seems, we don’t.

No more than another unsuccessful Wembley appearance? We had a season of generally entertaining football, finished top 6 and got to the playoff final, what more do you want from a manager FFS? So two signings haven't worked out - I don't see how you can judge what happened with Marriott, how do you know if he was even fully fit for the final?

If frank hadn't left them maybe just maybe the side would ahve developed, but he didn't and we brought in Cocu, a change of manager often means going backwards, it shouldn't but it often does but you can't blame Frank for that.

I'd be happy with entertaining football and a top 6 finish most seasons for a club with our resources we came nowhere near that last season, what has Cocu done that makes you supportive?

[ramAnag]

No more than another unsuccessful Wembley appearance? We had a season of generally entertaining football, finished top 6 and got to the playoff final, what more do you want from a manager FFS? So two signings haven't worked out - I don't see how you can judge what happened with Marriott, how do you know if he was even fully fit for the final?

If frank hadn't left them maybe just maybe the side would ahve developed, but he didn't and we brought in Cocu, a change of manager often means going backwards, it shouldn't but it often does but you can't blame Frank for that.

I'd be happy with entertaining football and a top 6 finish most seasons for a club with our resources we came nowhere near that last season, what has Cocu done that makes you supportive?

What more do I want from a manager? Well...promotion fairly obviously.

Maybe that’s too much to expect, I’m not sure.

As far as Lampard is concerned...the truth is that he used his contacts and reputation to attract three loan players, including one current England international, but beyond that his transfer dealings weren’t at all good and, if memory serves, he took us just one match further than Rowett had the season before.

I suspect we might remember the season too fondly. It wasn’t that great or that entertaining. Yes we got to Wembley and it was fun to win at Old Trafford and Elland Road, but overall the season, and the football played, weren’t a patch on 2013-14. We were horribly second best to Villa twice that season, flattered by the eventual 2-1 Wembley scoreline and then done no favours at all by Lampard’s dilly dallying over whether he was staying or not. That’s how I remember it anyway.

People call Rowett a ‘snake’ but at least he just walked away...bit like Jewell before him. The way McClaren and Lampard left did us a lot more harm...imo.