Hudders 1 Rams 0

[mistaram]

That last sentence tells it’s own story, mista...but has the ‘recruitment been so poor’?

This may not be a complete list but going through Cocu’s signings...Bielik...good, injuries apart, Clarke...excellent, Rooney...disappointing this season, made a huge difference last season, Marshall...excellent, Byrne...very promising and at least as good as the £8m (?) player he replaced. Beyond that Te Wierik has, apparently, been a disappointment and the rest are too recent or unknown to judge.

For me the biggest puzzle is letting Marriott and Martin go without (possibly) getting a decent replacement...I say ‘possibly’ because it’s possible that Hector-Ingram, Duncan or CK-R might provide the answer.


The rest of the squad...the four youngsters who were being praised not so long ago, and the likes of Davies, Forsyth, Shinnie, Lawrence, Wisdom, Ibe and Holmes are all decent players. So is it actually down to the squad and recruitment or something else?

RA if as you appear to think those signings are ok then why can't we win matches Im not saying it's Cocus fault my guess is he's not seen any of those signings play . Doubt he came over to watch Charlton and Beilic . If we can't win with those players then something else is going wrong . Could be attitude, tactics, players not as good we think they are .Or poor management Personally I think tactics are playing a big part in poor performances They players have obviously been told possession is all that matters ,they are frightened to to take anybody on in case they lose possession They take the easy option of a five yard pass We are in a serious slump and I don't think Cocu has the man management skills to make these players believe We can go over all the things he's had to put with but at the end of the day we don't want Div3 football . When he came out with the statement after match interview last night " I thought we were a joy to watch first half " you have to wonder is his time up

[Geoff Parkstone]

or if the dutch equivalent word for joy has a double meaning

[ramAnag]

RA if as you appear to think those signings are ok then why can't we win matches Im not saying it's Cocus fault my guess is he's not seen any of those signings play . Doubt he came over to watch Charlton and Beilic . If we can't win with those players then something else is going wrong . Could be attitude, tactics, players not as good we think they are .Or poor management Personally I think tactics are playing a big part in poor performances They players have obviously been told possession is all that matters ,they are frightened to to take anybody on in case they lose possession They take the easy option of a five yard pass We are in a serious slump and I don't think Cocu has the man management skills to make these players believe We can go over all the things he's had to put with but at the end of the day we don't want Div3 football . When he came out with the statement after match interview last night " I thought we were a joy to watch first half " you have to wonder is his time up

My only disagreement with you is your comments about ‘recruitment’.

I continue to believe that we have some quality players and you were actually very positive when we signed Marshall and Byrne.

A team made up of something like...Marshall, Byrne, Wisdom/Davies, Clarke, Buchanan, Sibley, Rooney, Bielik, Jozwiak, Waghorn/CK-R, Lawrence, with the likes of Holmes, Knight, Shinnie, Forsyth and Bird on the bench should be more than capable of ‘holding its own’ - and more - in the Championship.

The fact that we aren’t getting close means that I have to come round to agreeing with you about tactics and man management. Last night we just looked bereft of ideas and any sort of leadership.

[Geoff Parkstone]

The key word there is "should" be more than capable....

[AdiSalisbury]

Sibley, Knight, Buchanan, Bird - are all kids. Bielik is still highly inexperienced. We don't know enough about Jozwiak.

That's 6 players completely unproven at this level.

Then you have Shinnie, proven to be incapable at this level.
Rooney, who takes a good deadball but is largely a chocolate teapot.
Forsyth, who looks like he can defend for 20 minutes, then plays a superb through ball to the opposition, before getting injured for 6 months.

It's just too many unproven or weak players. Can anyone think off just 1 player we have now, that is better than the player in his position in the QPR Wembley defeat?

[mistaram]

As ever it's 12 to 15 games into a season before you start worrying. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Things have improved a lot. Antisocial media was going crazy last night pre game as we didn't have a recognised striker in the starting XI. That MIGHT be a way forward.

What I think will happen is that Waggy will be the CF. We've seen 3 or 4 different systems this season and I don't know which one we will favour. Evans has again not done the biz and will be cover for injuries at best. Te Wierik hasn't adapted yet, might not. He needs a few games in the 23s to get used to our system and the pace of English football, he's struggling with it IMO.

Not sure Shinnie is starting XI material. Same goes for Rooney who has struggled every game he's played this season and made mistakes he shouldn't. Bird hardly ever goes right, preferring almost always to ge left with the ball and is too predictable. Lawrence tried one man too many too often last night. Knight and Jozwiak need to start showing more end product, be that a goal or an assist. Davies is not good enough on the ball, especially under pressure but is probably our best CH defensively. Most of the defenders struggle when the opponents press us high up in our defensive third of the pitch....... I could go on listing all our players limitations but you get the gist.

I could do the same with players' good points too but won't as I've covered them in many posts before.

More of last night's energy and having US being the team doing the pressing and letting our opponents worry about US in their defensive third is what we CAN do. We have the pegs to climb the table. They need putting in the right shaped holes and have those holes in the right places on the pitch. That is the challenge facing the club. With team selection I have always been a horses for courses guy. You have different solutions to different challenges. Pick the system and the individuals to play the opponent you are facing which might sometimes mean not choosing your best player.

I think we need to, as we did last night, go for a system that has a more attacking look without sacrificing defensive stability. I'm not a fan of the 1-4-2-3-1 system we have used a lot. Depending on who you have there you either end up with 7 defenders, incl the keeper, and 4 attacking players which isn't enough, or you have Bird and Rooney as the 2 and they go upfield leaving the defence exposed......

With the players we have we could copy Engalnd's 1966 wingless wonders. Waggy up top with Lawro or Knight or Sibley working round him. Midfield 4 of Jozwiak and Ibe wide and pick any of Bielik/Rooney/Shinnie as the defensive of the 2 CMs and choose from Bird/Sibley/Knight/Lawrence/Holmes whichever of them isn't up top with Waggy as the attacking CM.

Buchanan/Fozzy at LB. Clarke and Davies in the centre and Byrne/Wis on the right. Marshall in goal.

I realise I've missed quite a few players out but I see them as no more than cover. having said that, there will be one I've missed completely and will regret it when someone points it out

Or we could have the back 4 with Bielik in front of it, same MF as in the wingless wonder selection and Waggy up top.

Whatever happens we need even more balance than we had last night between attack and defence.

We'll be all right. after all, I'm a Northern Soulie and we "Keep the Faith".

MA I agree with all your summing up about the deficiencies in each player . T hats why they play in the Championship and not the Prem . Maybe you can now give us your opinions on Cocu and his staff because I am rapidly losing faith in them What points should we think is acceptable after 12matches .

[MadAmster]

I said when he came that this was the type of football his sides play.

I think he did very well last season bringing the young uns on. I was a bit worried on that front as at PSV, most of the young uns he brought on were young players he bought from other clubs as opposed to promoting PSV Academy players. I was worrying for no reason it seems.

The style they WANT the first XI to play isn't the same as they used at PSV. The style they WANT is the one being reasonably successful for the 18s and 23s. As has been said before, the difference being that the young uns have taken to it like a duck to water and it works because they move into space when a teammate has the ball giving that man outlets for a pass. In the opening 3 League games of this season we saw very little movement ahead of the ball and the "back 6" could only pass the ball amongst themselves. The oppo pressed and harried them into mistakes and we lost and deservedly so.

We then changed tack at Norwich and went for a point and came back with three. It was an improved performance that, IMO, deserved the draw but you'd always take a win. How often have you seen Derby do everything but score for 89 minutes and lose.... Watford was another different system and IMO we deserved a draw from that as well. One piece of individual skill aided and abetted by Evans not marking his man on the edge of the box gave them the win. Last night it was another good move, aided and abetted by Wisdom and Davies that saw us lose and I think we ought to have had a draw over the 90 minutes. That's 3 different strategies in 3 games yet some fans are saying same old, same old. It isn't.

I enjoyed the first half performance at Huddersfield despite te crap dead ball situations and a plethora of passes that didn't work. There was energy, effort, movement off the ball and some very good quick passing interchanges from the team. More of that please without the personal errors and we will be in with a shout in games. Sometimes you get pushed into making the right decisions. Might last night's 1st hour be the prelude to us getting served up this quicker style which showed a lot of givafuquedness. I hope so.

It's all about opinions. I think we have reached a moment where the Eurocent has dropped and they have realised what is needed to get on in this League. We struggled lasts easona nd then the Rooney effect kicked in. We will never know what would have happened without Covid but we were the form team of the League at the time..... People seem to forget that.

How much has lack of funds forced their hands in recruitment? Very much IMO.

The defending has improved compared to the 3 openers and we are less worried by being pressed at the back, although that is still a problem.

We saw movement off the ball at last. They need to carry on with what they've been doing the past couple of weeks. performances are improving and the results will come.

After 12 games I'd like to see us at somewhere around a point a game.

The staff are, IMO, to blame for the poor opening of the season. We played too slowly and got completely done by being pressed high by all of our opponents, including Barrow who thoroughly deserved taking us to penalties. That slow play and the lack of movement has declined and has, hopefully, gone away. We shall see.

This staff, after a poor start, got us flying pre lockdown. I see no reason they can't do it again.

This season's poor start is partly down to the injury situation and the lack of funds which they can't do much about. However, IMO, it is also down to the fit players being 2 weeks pre season short of fitness when we played Reading and we have been playing catch up since. THAT is down to the staff starting pre season too late and/or not giving the squad enough to do in the break and/or not making pre season create the necessary fitness levels.

It's not all sweetness and light by a long chalk but things are looking up

[Ram59]

I think MM has a few things to consider before pulling the trigger. Firstly, there's the precarious financial position of the club and the cost involved getting rid of the coaching staff on long contracts. Secondly, there's no guarantee that we won't end up back to square one, with a new management team. Thirdly, will he get criticised for pulling the trigger again.

Considering all these facts, I think that he will try to hold off until early December and hope that things turn around, with a fully fit squad. I think that he will appreciate that we're already unlikely to be promoted this season and so the minimum target then becomes to avoid relegation. Even being bottom after 10/12 matches doesn't mean certain relegation but if things don't turn around by early December, then a new manager will have a few games to assess and maybe improve players before the January loan window.

With luck, a fully fit squad might gel together and turn things around and I think MM will give this chance to Cocu.

[mistaram]

I said when he came that this was the type of football his sides play.

I think he did very well last season bringing the young uns on. I was a bit worried on that front as at PSV, most of the young uns he brought on were young players he bought from other clubs as opposed to promoting PSV Academy players. I was worrying for no reason it seems.

The style they WANT the first XI to play isn't the same as they used at PSV. The style they WANT is the one being reasonably successful for the 18s and 23s. As has been said before, the difference being that the young uns have taken to it like a duck to water and it works because they move into space when a teammate has the ball giving that man outlets for a pass. In the opening 3 League games of this season we saw very little movement ahead of the ball and the "back 6" could only pass the ball amongst themselves. The oppo pressed and harried them into mistakes and we lost and deservedly so.

We then changed tack at Norwich and went for a point and came back with three. It was an improved performance that, IMO, deserved the draw but you'd always take a win. How often have you seen Derby do everything but score for 89 minutes and lose.... Watford was another different system and IMO we deserved a draw from that as well. One piece of individual skill aided and abetted by Evans not marking his man on the edge of the box gave them the win. Last night it was another good move, aided and abetted by Wisdom and Davies that saw us lose and I think we ought to have had a draw over the 90 minutes. That's 3 different strategies in 3 games yet some fans are saying same old, same old. It isn't.

I enjoyed the first half performance at Huddersfield despite te crap dead ball situations and a plethora of passes that didn't work. There was energy, effort, movement off the ball and some very good quick passing interchanges from the team. More of that please without the personal errors and we will be in with a shout in games. Sometimes you get pushed into making the right decisions. Might last night's 1st hour be the prelude to us getting served up this quicker style which showed a lot of givafuquedness. I hope so.

It's all about opinions. I think we have reached a moment where the Eurocent has dropped and they have realised what is needed to get on in this League. We struggled lasts easona nd then the Rooney effect kicked in. We will never know what would have happened without Covid but we were the form team of the League at the time..... People seem to forget that.

How much has lack of funds forced their hands in recruitment? Very much IMO.

The defending has improved compared to the 3 openers and we are less worried by being pressed at the back, although that is still a problem.

We saw movement off the ball at last. They need to carry on with what they've been doing the past couple of weeks. performances are improving and the results will come.

After 12 games I'd like to see us at somewhere around a point a game.

The staff are, IMO, to blame for the poor opening of the season. We played too slowly and got completely done by being pressed high by all of our opponents, including Barrow who thoroughly deserved taking us to penalties. That slow play and the lack of movement has declined and has, hopefully, gone away. We shall see.

This staff, after a poor start, got us flying pre lockdown. I see no reason they can't do it again.

This season's poor start is partly down to the injury situation and the lack of funds which they can't do much about. However, IMO, it is also down to the fit players being 2 weeks pre season short of fitness when we played Reading and we have been playing catch up since. THAT is down to the staff starting pre season too late and/or not giving the squad enough to do in the break and/or not making pre season create the necessary fitness levels.

It's not all sweetness and light by a long chalk but things are looking up

Yes I agree we changed the system at Norwich but that is because of the meeting after the Blackburn game . When the players told Cocu they were not happy with the way they had to pass the ball across the back all the time .Yes lack of funds hasn't helped but when you spend what little you have on an untried Polish winger then I find it hard to sympathise Agree about the fitness levels we always look slower than every team we play. That is down to the fitness gurus we employ So will you be happy with 10 points after 12 games because it's looking that way

[mistaram]

My only disagreement with you is your comments about ‘recruitment’.

I continue to believe that we have some quality players and you were actually very positive when we signed Marshall and Byrne.

A team made up of something like...Marshall, Byrne, Wisdom/Davies, Clarke, Buchanan, Sibley, Rooney, Bielik, Jozwiak, Waghorn/CK-R, Lawrence, with the likes of Holmes, Knight, Shinnie, Forsyth and Bird on the bench should be more than capable of ‘holding its own’ - and more - in the Championship.

The fact that we aren’t getting close means that I have to come round to agreeing with you about tactics and man management. Last night we just looked bereft of ideas and any sort of leadership.

RA you are right I have praised Marshall and Byrne because they are a big improvement in what we had in those positions . As for his other signings I can't remember saying anything positive about them But it's obvious he's being given players he doesn't pick them He tells the recruitment team what position and type of player he needs What sort of manager would put up with having to lose Martin and Marriott and replacing them with CK-R Yes your team looks capable but football isn't played on paper .