Head injuries and heading.

[ramAnag]

In the light of Geoff Hurst’s recent comments where do we stand on this?
Easy to see how someone like Geoff Astle would have been likely to have suffered as a result of this...a little harder as regards Nobby Styles perhaps.
Is dementia likely to have been caused by regular heading or are there always going to be a percentage of old footballers who suffer from this horrible condition just because they are not immune from the ageing process.
Does it continue to be as much of a problem now that balls are so much lighter than the heavy waterlogged things many of us often used to play with?
Do we just have to accept that voluntary participation in sport is likely to ultimately lead to later physical problems eg...knees and ankles (football)...fingers...(cricket)...back and neck...(rugby) etc.
Are we likely to see heading outlawed in the game? Where do we stand on children heading a ball?
Thoughts?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Its not just sports, rA, its any occupation or activity. Even bean counters nowadays are exposed to RSI, carpel tunnel, eyesight issues from working on computers. PTSD from crowded commuter trains etc! I imagine the same is true for most occupations, even teaching! Obviously in the industrial sectors, building trades etc etc there are risks of significant injury.

Whatever anyone does in life generally comes with a risk element - go shopping you might be involved in a car crash, may get bombed and so on. Whatever we do in life has a consequence, but is that a reason for not doing it. The nanny state might want to strip away all this risk, but if they did, we would all have to stay indoors in bed, and even then risk getting bed sores!

So for sure we are seeing emerging consequences in whatever we do in life, and the risks attached to any activity are being emphasisied. Looking at recent posts, it seems several of us have had to stop playing golf because of bodily problems that may have been due to actually playing it. But as someone with a shoulder rotator cuff problem probably due to golf and a broken finger from cricket, I don't regret a life in which I played both - the pleasure in earlier life may seem far away now, and the shoulder pain an aggravation, but I wouldn't change a thing (even if I could)

[ramAnag]

Its not just sports, rA, its any occupation or activity. Even bean counters nowadays are exposed to RSI, carpel tunnel, eyesight issues from working on computers. PTSD from crowded commuter trains etc! I imagine the same is true for most occupations, even teaching! Obviously in the industrial sectors, building trades etc etc there are risks of significant injury.

Whatever anyone does in life generally comes with a risk element - go shopping you might be involved in a car crash, may get bombed and so on. Whatever we do in life has a consequence, but is that a reason for not doing it. The nanny state might want to strip away all this risk, but if they did, we would all have to stay indoors in bed, and even then risk getting bed sores!

So for sure we are seeing emerging consequences in whatever we do in life, and the risks attached to any activity are being emphasisied. Looking at recent posts, it seems several of us have had to stop playing golf because of bodily problems that may have been due to actually playing it. But as someone with a shoulder rotator cuff problem probably due to golf and a broken finger from cricket, I don't regret a life in which I played both - the pleasure in earlier life may seem far away now, and the shoulder pain an aggravation, but I wouldn't change a thing (even if I could)

Take your point completely, well apart from the ‘bean counters’.
I agree with your sentiment about how you wouldn’t ‘change a thing’ but then I guess your shoulders or, in my case, fingers and a variety of scars don’t compare to long term brain damage...if heading was indeed the cause.

There don’t seem to be as many high profile incidents related to rugby and possibly cricket where I’d have thought incidents of concussion were probably higher.

[Ram59]

In the light of Geoff Hurst’s recent comments where do we stand on this?
Easy to see how someone like Geoff Astle would have been likely to have suffered as a result of this...a little harder as regards Nobby Styles perhaps.
Is dementia likely to have been caused by regular heading or are there always going to be a percentage of old footballers who suffer from this horrible condition just because they are not immune from the ageing process.
Does it continue to be as much of a problem now that balls are so much lighter than the heavy waterlogged things many of us often used to play with?
Do we just have to accept that voluntary participation in sport is likely to ultimately lead to later physical problems eg...knees and ankles (football)...fingers...(cricket)...back and neck...(rugby) etc.
Are we likely to see heading outlawed in the game? Where do we stand on children heading a ball?
Thoughts?

Agreed RA, football as a sport and footballs in particular are much different to what we used to play 50+ years ago.

Like many aspects of life, there are calls to make things more antiseptic. Many steps are sensible and welcome, but sometimes things go too far.

Possibly there is a case for not allowing heading in children up to a certain age, but compared to boxing, football is a lot lighter on head impact and surely boxing would be banned first.

Interesting, in walking football, heading is banned and you concede a free kick if you do. There sport is trying reduce the risk of injury, as the competitors are all getting a bit older now.

[MadAmster]

We get to know about World Cup Winners and top footballers simply because they are still "sporting heroes".

What about players from the old D3 and lower down the football pyramid and even to local football where many people played twice in a weekend. You'd expect them to have the same sort of affectd %s as the pros. I had 2 years in my early ****s of playing rugby for the school Saturday Morning, Local D1 or D5 depending on whether I was in the 1st XI or the Ressies that week plus a Sunday League game as well.

Are there more fotballers getting dementia % wise than there are from the general population? I've not seen comparison figures.

[ramAnag]

We get to know about World Cup Winners and top footballers simply because they are still "sporting heroes".

What about players from the old D3 and lower down the football pyramid and even to local football where many people played twice in a weekend.

Are there more fotballers getting dementia % wise than there are from the general population? I've not seen comparison figures.

All fair points, MA...although apparently at least five of the 1966 World Cup winning squad - Martin Peters, Nobby Styles, Ray Wilson, Jack Charlton and now Bobby - have succumbed to either Alzheimer’s or other degenerative brain conditions.
All, but Bobby, are now dead and that’s an astonishing percentage...unless there’s another factor.
Apparently Jeff Astle’s brain had suffered the type of injury one would expect to see in a heavy weight boxer and it’s easy to imagine how that would have been the same in the case of the Charltons, particularly Jackie. Wouldn’t have thought the same would be true of the others and as you say it would be interesting to see if the ‘evidence’ was also there from the lower, less famous, leagues.

[AdiSalisbury]

No chance of head injury with our strikers, we never cross it in open play, and our Wayne Rooney world class corners don't get higher than the 1st defenders shin pads.

[wessoram]

All fair points, MA...although apparently at least five of the 1966 World Cup winning squad - Martin Peters, Nobby Styles, Ray Wilson, Jack Charlton and now Bobby - have succumbed to either Alzheimer’s or other degenerative brain conditions.
All, but Bobby, are now dead and that’s an astonishing percentage...unless there’s another factor.
Apparently Jeff Astle’s brain had suffered the type of injury one would expect to see in a heavy weight boxer and it’s easy to imagine how that would have been the same in the case of the Charltons, particularly Jackie. Wouldn’t have thought the same would be true of the others and as you say it would be interesting to see if the ‘evidence’ was also there from the lower, less famous, leagues.

The lower, less famous leagues had less higher profile players rA. So its difficult to gauge as they don't make front page news.
I believe that if you were to delve into individual club news/records, that many ex-lower league players have suffered in a similar way. I do know that Chesterfield are currently running a campaign to raise funds for research due to Ernie Moss being diagnosed with Pick's disease, a form of dementia.

[ramAnag]

The lower, less famous leagues had less higher profile players rA. So its difficult to gauge as they don't make front page news.
I believe that if you were to delve into individual club news/records, that many ex-lower league players have suffered in a similar way. I do know that Chesterfield are currently running a campaign to raise funds for research due to Ernie Moss being diagnosed with Pick's disease, a form of dementia.

Had no idea about Ernie Moss, wesso. Real local hero...sad...he also had Covid during the first lockdown apparently but won that battle.

[Andy_Faber]

A lesson from history, one World Cup winner chose to play the entire finals without heading the ball (not to protect his head but an eye as it happened). Name the (truly fantastic) player