O/T Are you going to take a vaccine?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Interesting rA, that you are so ready to dismiss an alternative point of view as "*******s" when the scientists with their grossly exaggerated models are considered OK? Lets face it not even the scientists agree and are not always right either.

I have to say that I am still of the view that the harm done by lockdowns, in terms of economic loss, mental health and delays to other health treatments is not far short of the death toll from Coronavirus, indeed over the longer term it may be higher. Putting the whole country into lockdown, rather than targeted local lockdowns of high infection areas with tracing and isolation of those infected as say China and South Korea have done, seems more effective with less negative results for society as a whole.

Its so easy if your retired on a pension sat safely at home to agree with the lockdown approach, not so easy if your self employed and getting **** all from the government.

But also in freedom of speech, is not incumbent to allow others with a point of view to express that point of view? I agree that where there is deliberate inciting of violence, revolt or discriminatory views expressed then some form of censorship is appropriate, but I'm vary wary of stopping expression simply because some do not agree with the views being expressed.

**** me, Im agreeing with Swal again! The trouble is that pro Tory pro Johnson advocates such as rA are all too prepared to believe what the government advice is when it doesnt represent an inconvenience to them personally. And before you get all angst ridden rA, that is called sarcasm

[ramAnag]

Interesting rA, that you are so ready to dismiss an alternative point of view as "*******s" when the scientists with their grossly exaggerated models are considered OK? Lets face it not even the scientists agree and are not always right either.

I have to say that I am still of the view that the harm done by lockdowns, in terms of economic loss, mental health and delays to other health treatments is not far short of the death toll from Coronavirus, indeed over the longer term it may be higher. Putting the whole country into lockdown, rather than targeted local lockdowns of high infection areas with tracing and isolation of those infected as say China and South Korea have done, seems more effective with less negative results for society as a whole.

Its so easy if your retired on a pension sat safely at home to agree with the lockdown approach, not so easy if your self employed and getting **** all from the government.

But also in freedom of speech, is not incumbent to allow others with a point of view to express that point of view? I agree that where there is deliberate inciting of violence, revolt or discriminatory views expressed then some form of censorship is appropriate, but I'm vary wary of stopping expression simply because some do not agree with the views being expressed.

All reasonable points Swale, although I have to wonder if you heard the ‘interview’.

In response to your paragraphs.

1) I recognise the dilemma represented by the battle against Covid v other negative impacts. It’s enormously difficult.

2) Yes, I’m retired...so are you apparently...but in the last week alone three very, very close family members have had to have Covid tests and another has to work from home, probably at least until next June, because of risks involving an underlying health condition. Another very close family member has been made unemployed and I haven’t been able to see any of them so I, like many others, am hardly untouched or undisrupted.

3) Perhaps the phrase ‘why do we give them air time’ was ill considered and I do respect their right to a view. On the other hand they are speaking from the perspective of wanting to sell a song that is basically suggesting that we are all being ‘criminalised’ by lockdown. I do think that’s bollux and when they back up their ‘theory’ by questioning the wearing of masks, suggesting lockdown doesn’t work on the basis of this being the second one, and saying that we should all be visiting ‘Granny’ to help her rather than avoiding her and making her lonely...I do think such sentiments are irresponsible nonsense which if they, via populist reaction, catch on will be positively dangerous.

4) As I hope the above has made clear, I don’t want to stop people expressing their opinions, but I do reserve the right to identify certain opinions as irresponsible and it’s a fine line, as we’ve seen all too often in recent years, between the spouting of populist nonsense and such views being somehow turned into policy.

P.S. GP, it’s obviously one of those days when you have nothing to offer in terms of genuine comment and just wish to play pointless games. Feel free to indulge yourself but I have better things to do.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Interesting, I make the same point as Swale, and you rubbish it. Swale makes the point and then suddenly its reasonable.

[ramAnag]

Interesting, I make the same point as Swale, and you rubbish it. Swale makes the point and then suddenly its reasonable.

Really? I don’t recall Swale attacking me (again!) for being a ‘so called liberal’ or bringing Corbyn’s brother into the issue.
Maybe he just made his point more clearly, but it was hardly the ‘same’ point.
Either way...I’m not interested in such personalised point scoring.

[MadAmster]

Really? I don’t recall Swale attacking me (again!) for being a ‘so called liberal’ or bringing Corbyn’s brother into the issue.
Maybe he just made his point more clearly, but it was hardly the ‘same’ point.
Either way...I’m not interested in such personalised point scoring.

You might not be but..........

[ramAnag]

It must have been on Sky as she’s their presenter, I was talking generally I am currently indisposed In the Royal trying to negotiate an escape after a mere 4 tablets per day appeared not to be up to reducing my heart rate below Motörhead speed. Ailing I may be but gotta take my mod duties seriously!

Forget your ‘mod duties’. Just get well. I promise to ignore GP, until he talks sense, and fall out with no one till you’re fit again.

P.S. You haven’t seen mista in there have you? Seems to have gone awol.

[AdiSalisbury]

Forget your ‘mod duties’. Just get well. I promise to ignore GP, until he talks sense, and fall out with no one till you’re fit again.

P.S. You haven’t seen mista in there have you? Seems to have gone awol.

Seconded, get well soon Andy!!!

[MadAmster]

It must have been on Sky as she’s their presenter, I was talking generally I am currently indisposed In the Royal trying to negotiate an escape after a mere 4 tablets per day appeared not to be up to reducing my heart rate below Motörhead speed. Ailing I may be but gotta take my mod duties seriously!

We probably have a decent average between us Andy. Mine is under 40 at rest and my daily 24 hour average is often low to mid 50s measured over the day.. Throw in a 50Km bike ride at 30kph and the average might just creep over the 60.

Today so far averaging 48, 50 yesterday. I gather yours isn't normally at the sort of BPM I see on my my mixer from some tracks. Here's to them sorting it out quick time for you.

[swaledale]

I watched Question Time last week and that is exactly what came out of Hancock's mouth.

Where did you get YOUR information?

Ah well enough said! if you take any credence from what a politician and especially that **** Hancock says on a "panel" show then expect to be misinformed!

Listening to radio 4, reading the Times and the Guardian, reading scientific papers on the tinternet and listening to what various health officials, scientists, have said in the media over the past few days since the announcement.

Admittedly there are variations and differing points of view, most likely because as yet there isn't a coherent strategy (why would that surprise anyone?) agreed yet. Although within 12 months everybody will be offered the vaccine, unless there is a medical reason why they shouldn't take it.

Interestingly Disabled Groups are kicking off today because they aren't currently listed in the governments plans for the first tranche - which is over 70's, vulnerable due to health condition, medical staff, care workers/ nursing home staff and key frontline workers - apparently.

So the answer in short is from a wide range of sources and by evaluating the common thread, rather than what one politician said.

Also the US vaccine today was announced as having been tested on 12 year olds upwards.

[Ram59]

Interesting rA, that you are so ready to dismiss an alternative point of view as "*******s" when the scientists with their grossly exaggerated models are considered OK? Lets face it not even the scientists agree and are not always right either.

I have to say that I am still of the view that the harm done by lockdowns, in terms of economic loss, mental health and delays to other health treatments is not far short of the death toll from Coronavirus, indeed over the longer term it may be higher. Putting the whole country into lockdown, rather than targeted local lockdowns of high infection areas with tracing and isolation of those infected as say China and South Korea have done, seems more effective with less negative results for society as a whole.

Its so easy if your retired on a pension sat safely at home to agree with the lockdown approach, not so easy if your self employed and getting **** all from the government.

But also in freedom of speech, is not incumbent to allow others with a point of view to express that point of view? I agree that where there is deliberate inciting of violence, revolt or discriminatory views expressed then some form of censorship is appropriate, but I'm vary wary of stopping expression simply because some do not agree with the views being expressed.

Agreed Swale, on the lockdown situation. The latest R figure which is for the week ending last Friday has shown a continued reduction down to between 1.0 and 1.1 with previous tier 3 areas below 1. These figures are too early for the national lockdown to have had any affect and show that the previous local tier system was working.

The second national lockdown wasn't needed and is causing untold damage, especially in those areas less affected by covid. The knock on effect will be 'why should we take notice with precautions in our area, if we're going to end up with another national lockdown because of other areas lack of discipline?'

People throughout the country are losing their jobs, businesses and livelihoods when their local rates are low. How do you explain to these people that they've lost everything including their freedom because of the actions of the people in cities like Liverpool and Hull?