The fans are back in town...

[MissWinnie]

Westy, I understand where you are coming from ... the phrase "lies, damn lies and statistics" always springs to mind when people are bandying about different figures to support their stance and I appreciate your concern about decisions being made based on advice being taken from those with vested commercial interests, whilst others are not heard/being censored, which of course makes us question whether we can trust what we are being told, and I share your concerns about the motivations behind some of the decisions and how this thing is being managed. I guess, to be fair, this is a novel virus, so the "experts" are having to learn as they go along, and so the advice will inevitably change as we learn more ...

I think a lot of people are flying under the radar - those of us who aren't affected in a life threatening way but who are still ill, many months on aren't being included in any statistics. Each single statistic, however they are interpreted, has a human face, and a personal story, and matters, whether it be a death or bereavement, long term disabling symptoms, a job or business lost, and we have to get it as right as we can possibly can, and be as caring and responsible as we possibly can whether on a govt level, a scientific, or an individual level. My concern is that we aren't learning from mistakes made at the start of this ...

Dave - I know Villa Park won't be entertaining any fans now Birmingham is in tier 3 so not an issue now anyway and I get your point about the size of VP and it being sort of outdoors - I was just questioning why now, really, when it wasn't deemed safe when numbers were lower, though I did have concerns about it meaning extra people would be travelling to stadiums on trains etc

I guess with shops, it's not ideal but we do have to eat, whereas (I'm with Exiled that) football's not essential, but I know many fans would disagree Re Christmas, I may be wrong, but at the moment, I don't think there are any limits on the number of people in each household. 3 households make up one bubble and households included within that one bubble can only mix with each other indoors during the 5 days of Christmas.

Exiled, your rants always make me smile I'm with you about just staying in our own households this Christmas. Before the rules were announced my family members had already decided we would do this - just spend Christmas with who you already live with. I don't understand why people would care so much about having a "normal Christmas" to potentially infect the ones we love the most ...

Anyway, I hope everyone is okay, and getting through this difficult period. Love to all xxx

[westcountryvillain]

Good post Win (as ever), I think you're included in the little mentioned statistic that equates deaths with prolonged effects but I may be wrong there.

Exiled - couldn't agree more with you're point about the flakeys, I have seen folk at stadium gigs watching the entire thing through their phones just to post a song on YT when they'll have paid a load for a ticket, crazy.

We too are staying home alone this Christmas, it's common sense to do so but as they say the trouble with common sense is it is not that common; I think as a nation we have now become conditioned to expecting the state to tell us how to behave instead of using the noggin'.

Wishing all of you here on VM the best in these tough times.

[MissWinnie]

I stand corrected, Westy. I do count then! I was kind of ineloquently trying to say it's so easy for the human factor and how things impact people on an individual level can so easily get lost in a sea of statistics. But I guess I've always been a more qualitative kind of person (probably because I am soooo bad at maths)

I absolutely agree re us using our noggin's on this one. All the best to you and your family, Westy x

[Exiledvillan]

Thanks, Win. That last one, as with most of my rants, was the edited version. I really do try not to cause too much offence, even with Christianity /organised religion and the world of Woke. Although the latter is more challenging, as that world is desperate to be offended. The former I do try and keep to myself. Ramming my stance on Christianity down people's throats is very hypocritical of me, as in doing this, I'm sinking down to Christianity’s/organised religion's M.O.

Anyway, so Brum is Tier 3, surprised? Over here, we’re stuck within a 5km (3 miles in English) exclusion zone (unless you have a free pass letter), until Monday. The 6 weeks have flown by, not.

We all miss the opportunity to go to the match. Hopefully, Covid will ‘do one’ soon, and we can all resume to what remains of normality.

Our health is our wealth.

[MissWinnie]

Ha ha re your editing You know what, Exiled, a rant every now and again just shows that you feel passionately about certain issues and more importantly that you care. You are never personally offensive, and never take offence yourself if people disagree with you, which of course they are free to do, as with any of us ... If none of us ever got mad about things we feel are wrong, no-one would ever be motivated to try and change things ...

There were rumours that Birmingham would likely be escalated to tier 3, so, no, not really surprised. I hadn't realised you had an excusion zone.

Gosh normality seems like a different world right now ... Who'd have thought as the clock struck 12 on New Year's eve that we would all be living under virtual house arrest for much of the year ... Yes, let's hope it realises it's outstayed it's welcome here

Yes, absolutely.

[TrianonDave]

Exactly my thoughts, look at Liverpool, tier 3 down to 2, Coventry tier 1 to 3. Surely we should start from where we left off?
Bromsgrove tier 2 but that don't help anyone!!

[samhubball]

Sitting outside in freezing temperatures on a plastic seat is no different than going to the park which, is what we can all do. I find the whole restriction thing completely confusing, 500 people in each stand at VP will be like reserve game yet you can storm into any Tesco, Asda or Morrissons where the virus is so much easier to catch, one sneeze and its airbourne 😬 i tried and failed to explain to the other half how the 3 household bubbles rules will work over Xmas, correct me if I'm wrong but if you have guests at your house to a max of 6 including yourself, you the can only visit two other households which, when you visit, that household becomes bubble 2 and your own is bubble 1. The people you are visiting can only pick 1 more house to be bubble 3 as theirs is bubble 2 and your own bubble 1 if they return the visit and so on....🥴 you really are going to have pick your friends and Family really carefully and at the end of the day just who is going to police it, the nosey Nieghbour? Unless they stalk you, they wont know they have travelled from bubble 1 to bubble 2 via bubble 3, 4 or 5 and so on...
I'm staying put in my own bubble.....🙂 anyway from what I am hearing working in Aston, Birmingham will be placed in T3, that means no fans ☹

That is why the 3 household thing doesn't work. It's like the famous 6 degrees of separation between yourself and everyone in the world.

If my family mix with my sisters family and mix with my mum and dad, that is 3 bubbles. But they are allowed to mix then with my sister's neighbour, who will have mixed with their parents. They are also allowed to then mix with their friends, so basically, everyone has mixed with everyone and its a sham.

[TrianonDave]

To think Sam, people get paid to come up with crass rules like this!!

[Exiledvillan]

How can you go from tier two to tier three whilst being in lockdown for the last month? Suggests to me that Lockdown is a complete waste of time!

Pretty simple really. Lockdown announced to commence in 3 days' time. People go on the lash for 3 days.

A week or two later whilst the virus has made itself at home, people visit family, friends and attend house parties, and pass it on. Also, many people ignore Lockdown rules anyway. Replicate this several hundred times over, and BOOM, by the end of the Month cases have risen.

[mondaze]

just proves my point really lockdown is nonsense.