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Thread: The Present System And The Future

  1. #1
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    The Present System And The Future

    The 3-4-3 has made us a far more competitive team at this level this season and I couldn't make a case against it .

    However when we play against the better teams It's not quite so effective , I take the point the top 6 have better players but it's more than just having better players .

    I've never been a great fan of three central defenders and have always thought it was a sign of a manager or HC not having complete faith with the players he has .

    Almost everyone who is successful plays with a back four .

    I honestly believe that to be a consistently successful team in the championship we have to at some point look towards playing with two central defenders and two full backs , I'd expect the full backs to be able to defend effectively and get forward too .

    In an ideal world I'd want to play 4-3-3 , I do like the 3 up top which we currently employ .

    I feel the reason we are seeing more long ball is because we have 3 central defenders who by definition aren't the greatest passes of the ball and we also saw last night how relatively easy it is to nullify our wing backs .

    This isn't something I expect to see happen overnight by any means but I do believe that if further progress is to be made its something the coaching and recruitment teams need to be working towards .

    We need to be better with the ball , better at retaining possession , the amount of times we turn the ball over is woeful to be honest which is one of the reasons the better sides at this level brush us aside .

    The 4-3-3 should encourage the shorter ball and better movement within the team and be less predictable .

    My honest opinion is that Val has done a very good job with the players he's inherited but I have to say too that some of our football isn't easy to watch , in fact some of it is awful .

    Players such as Herbie Kane are suffering the consequences of this style who I think can be a passer of the ball and I'd also include Palmer and Mowatt in that scenario .

    I'm desperate to get Styles in to midfield too who has the skill set to pass the ball , move and cause mischief offensively .

    At this moment in time it's difficult to see which two central defenders you'd go with in a back four but I do think Sibbick should be in the conversation with his calmness and decent ability on the ball for a central defender with possibly Helik at his side .

    It's definitely something I'd be looking to see on the field once we get over the 50 point mark .

    It's about continuous improvement , finding the extra 10% and pushing further up that table , as I say I wouldn't expect this to happen overnight but in my opinion to further improve it has to happen going forward .

  2. #2
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    Very good post animal nailed it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by POGGYWELL View Post
    Very good post animal nailed it.
    Poggy I found myself screaming at the tv set last night for someone in a red shirt to put their foot on the ball and pick a pass .

    I think the most we managed last night was to complete 3 successive passes before it was turned over .

    I was watching Kane closely and almost every time he had possession he simply shifted the ball forwards in to an area rather than looking to pick a man out and inevitably turned the ball over .

    In my opinion that's not his game , nobody who came through the Liverpool academy and system could possibly only play that way , he's playing this way because of the present way Val sees it .

    At the same time I feel rather uncomfortable criticising when most of us are surprised at the results and our position in the table but I also feel that we are a hard watch too and it came to a head for me personally last night .

    A HC or a managers team tend to play the way that reveals the character of the man in the technical area .

    Val is tough , uncompromising and a results at all costs mentality which given the situation when he took over was what was required , some wins and points on the board to build confidence , be harder to play against etc etc .

    There comes a point however when your teams identity needs to be a more about what you can do to win games rather than to turn games in to a war of attrition and bring teams down to your level .

    I've found myself at times not enjoying what I'm seeing even though we've won .

    It's a difficult balance I know and maybe the tactics are part of stabilising our championship status and building towards a more pleasing on the eye product .

    I sincerely hope that is the case .

  4. #4
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    Frustrating to watch that game last night is an understatement Animal sometimes you need to win ugly but not every time.

    We need to try and get those magical 50 points on board as soon as we can then possibly we may well see a change of formation with four at the back. In the meantime I see him sticking stubbornly with his current plan.

    The disappointing thing for me is I see any points gained against top six teams a bonus with nothing really to lose so why not change it. We have the players in this squad that are capable of playing a game much more than lump ball.

    Sticking firmly with this plan against quality opposition clearly hasn’t worked.

    Pleased with the points on board and to think a win would have took us 7th was quite unthinkable at the start of the season.

  5. #5
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    Some excellent points made there Animal. I was exactly the same mate last night, frustrated as feck. A few expletives passed my lips I dare say. That goal right on aif time wounded me and I never recovered because I knew that lumping the ball into areas was playing reight into Swansea's hands. It was no good trying to box them in by giving them a throw deep in their half either because the Swansea lad could hurl it 30 odd yards away from the danger area.

    The thing is we have the technical ability in this team in my opinion. We've put together some lovely footballing moves at times in games. Some of our players looked at a loss last night because the ball was constantly launched over their heads into areas with not much chance of retaining possession. Garbage to watch and synonymous with what's happened when we've faced the better Championship opposition this season under Val.

    The thing is, last night there was nothing in that game, just a defensive mistake. On another night we could've got summat art o it. However, it ain't pretty. Yes, I do get that the conditions and the pitch were poor last night and Val obviously felt (as did Steve Cooper) that passing football was out of the question.


    Personally I think reading too much into that game would be a bit unfair. We need to move on and keep learning. A couple of things were exposed last night which we need to work on and get better at.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pass_and_move View Post
    Some excellent points made there Animal. I was exactly the same mate last night, frustrated as feck. A few expletives passed my lips I dare say. That goal right on aif time wounded me and I never recovered because I knew that lumping the ball into areas was playing reight into Swansea's hands. It was no good trying to box them in by giving them a throw deep in their half either because the Swansea lad could hurl it 30 odd yards away from the danger area.

    The thing is we have the technical ability in this team in my opinion. We've put together some lovely footballing moves at times in games. Some of our players looked at a loss last night because the ball was constantly launched over their heads into areas with not much chance of retaining possession. Garbage to watch and synonymous with what's happened when we've faced the better Championship opposition this season under Val.

    The thing is, last night there was nothing in that game, just a defensive mistake. On another night we could've got summat art o it. However, it ain't pretty. Yes, I do get that the conditions and the pitch were poor last night and Val obviously felt (as did Steve Cooper) that passing football was out of the question.


    Personally I think reading too much into that game would be a bit unfair. We need to move on and keep learning. A couple of things were exposed last night which we need to work on and get better at.
    I just thought it should have been 0-0. It was annoying how we conceded the goals. I thought Mowatt didn't look interested one bit.

  7. #7
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    You would see goals like that in a junior school match.

    Pathetic defending. Calamity Anderson involved again as per his CV.

    Were not that much better than a bottom 6 team weve just been lucky with a lot of results, coming from behind etc. Thats probably going to be controversial I know. On a positive point, weve had the bottle to recover some adverse situations which in previous seasons would have gone against us.

    We are seeing the emergence of Styles but after him, theres not much else of great value in this team, possibly Woodrow if he got better service.

    I would like to see Palmer fill the gap when Mowatt goes and leave Styles on the left, hes doing a respectable job and who else do we have to play there?

    Anyway I hope for the best tonight but I am not expecting anything from the game.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EthelRed View Post
    You would see goals like that in a junior school match.

    Pathetic defending. Calamity Anderson involved again as per his CV.

    Were not that much better than a bottom 6 team weve just been lucky with a lot of results, coming from behind etc. Thats probably going to be controversial I know. On a positive point, weve had the bottle to recover some adverse situations which in previous seasons would have gone against us.

    We are seeing the emergence of Styles but after him, theres not much else of great value in this team, possibly Woodrow if he got better service.

    I would like to see Palmer fill the gap when Mowatt goes and leave Styles on the left, hes doing a respectable job and who else do we have to play there?

    Anyway I hope for the best tonight but I am not expecting anything from the game.
    Me neither.

  9. #9
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    Some excellent comments in the above posts, including the last one from Ethel. We have been lucky in some games as our nice on the eye football under Strubber (without the goals) has vanished and it's place ping pong. One other point I would make is how many times players are instantly using their head when they have time to take it on the chest and get the ball on the ground. Laurel and Hardy's calamity defending in conceding Swansea's 2nd goal was a result of our other central defender Solly heading the ball aimlessly to an opponent when he had plenty of time to get control of the ball and play it out to a red shirt. Woodrow is another example his first reaction is to get his head onto a ball irrespective where it may end up, no thought of trying to chest it down and play on and find a red shirt, Ade boy seems the only one capable of doing it. Walton the same just hoofing it up field or out of play when a pass to a player is on. Is it Vals instructions or lack of brain power!? Lots of comments on Mowatt and Kane but they are on a hiding to nothing with the current style of football we are playing. IMO.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnsley Chop View Post
    Some excellent comments in the above posts, including the last one from Ethel. We have been lucky in some games as our nice on the eye football under Strubber (without the goals) has vanished and it's place ping pong. One other point I would make is how many times players are instantly using their head when they have time to take it on the chest and get the ball on the ground. Laurel and Hardy's calamity defending in conceding Swansea's 2nd goal was a result of our other central defender Solly heading the ball aimlessly to an opponent when he had plenty of time to get control of the ball and play it out to a red shirt. Woodrow is another example his first reaction is to get his head onto a ball irrespective where it may end up, no thought of trying to chest it down and play on and find a red shirt, Ade boy seems the only one capable of doing it. Walton the same just hoofing it up field or out of play when a pass to a player is on. Is it Vals instructions or lack of brain power!? Lots of comments on Mowatt and Kane but they are on a hiding to nothing with the current style of football we are playing. IMO.
    We need terrier like midfielders that will mop up knock downs and second balls. Kane and Mowatt are too static that's why they let the game bypass them. Palmer and Styles is our best midfield two as they put themselves about but with talent. Ritzmaier would fit in using this system as he's a headless chicken. If Mowatt does depart it might be time to have look at the lesser spotted Christie Davies.

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