Nobody getting out of here.

[BCram]

Yeah you are a very fair poster so I know what you're trying to do but it's kinda pointless when phrases like covid denier is getting bandied about.....I know you said you have plenty time to waste though.

I have tried to point out from they start that they continually move the goalposts.....think they will do that till time immemorial from now.

Either Govts admit they overeacted or the people start saying no, no more.....preferably both.

Until either or both of these things happen this is how life will be.

harder to control people in better weather so we will get out to play for a spell under tier system but this is the long haul Bcram until A, B or both happen.

I think you should be confident that the politics will change. I am sure that someone on the scientific teams will realise that there has to be a change in approach. We have had pressure on icu beds in the NHS every winter for years. I think the statisticians will find a way to claim victory. It will need the vaccines to be delivered and I think that will be the catalyst for a change of tune. I don't think we will get or should attempt to have a post mortem. That goes for both Westminster and Holyrood. We need to kiss and make up in an effort to get everyone pulling together. It's kind of like the trouble that McPake was in at the start of the season. Get a few wins and the criticism drops away to the e tent that the club feels as though it is in a good place. At least it does, to me, expecting there will be other views, but the principle is the same, win a few and the mood improves.

[Returnofrros]

I think you should be confident that the politics will change. I am sure that someone on the scientific teams will realise that there has to be a change in approach. We have had pressure on icu beds in the NHS every winter for years. I think the statisticians will find a way to claim victory. It will need the vaccines to be delivered and I think that will be the catalyst for a change of tune. I don't think we will get or should attempt to have a post mortem. That goes for both Westminster and Holyrood. We need to kiss and make up in an effort to get everyone pulling together. It's kind of like the trouble that McPake was in at the start of the season. Get a few wins and the criticism drops away to the e tent that the club feels as though it is in a good place. At least it does, to me, expecting there will be other views, but the principle is the same, win a few and the mood improves.

Hope you are right but you know what I think.

As forbidding and making up.....No chance.

There should be the biggest investigation ever into why Govts reacted like they did.

Politicians and their scientists should be ****ting it, every graph, ever presser, every falsehood they have uttered should be investigated.

They have blood on their hands and will do for years to come, they have ruined lives, buisnesses and futures, denied people being with the ones they love on their death bed and wreaked untold misery on people.

He'll mend them, I really hope many of them will spend a considerable amount of time behind bars.

[BCram]

Hope you are right but you know what I think.

As forbidding and making up.....No chance.

There should be the biggest investigation ever into why Govts reacted like they did.

Politicians and their scientists should be ****ting it, every graph, ever presser, every falsehood they have uttered should be investigated.

They have blood on their hands and will do for years to come, they have ruined lives, buisnesses and futures, denied people being with the ones they love on their death bed and wreaked untold misery on people.

He'll mend them, I really hope many of them will spend a considerable amount of time behind bars.

I think the approach you advocate will keep the country back and if you think a legal redress is possible I disagree. It's not like Nuremberg where the winners try the losers and there is such obvious crime to prosecute.

[Returnofrros]

I think the approach you advocate will keep the country back and if you think a legal redress is possible I disagree. It's not like Nuremberg where the winners try the losers and there is such obvious crime to prosecute.

I disagree.

This must never happen again.

Those responsible must be held to account.....unlikely I know in Britain and especially in Scotland but I really hope it happens no matter how long it takes.

[BCram]

Been trying to think of historical examples. Dodgy Iraq dossier, thalidomide, factor8 for blood transfusions for hemophilia but there may be better examples. Football tragedy at Hillsborough. Maybe you are right? I had not considered the personal element of loss and hurt involved when decisions taken by those in power go wrong. Will have a rethink in this light.

[Returnofrros]

Been trying to think of historical examples. Dodgy Iraq dossier, thalidomide, factor8 for blood transfusions for hemophilia but there may be better examples. Football tragedy at Hillsborough. Maybe you are right? I had not considered the personal element of loss and hurt involved when decisions taken by those in power go wrong. Will have a rethink in this light.

The truth will come to light, murder can't be hidden long - a man's son may hide but truth will always come out.

As some gadge called shakespeare once wrote.....had a pub on the hilltown at one time I believe.

[BCram]

Murder cannot be*hid*long—a man's son may,*but*in the end*truth will out. ... Well, old*man, I'll*tell you news of your*son. Give me your blessing. The*truth will*come to light, and murder*can't be*hidden*long—a man's son may hide,*but truth will*always come*out.
Merchant of Venice Act 2 scene2.
Amazing what Google knows!

[Returnofrros]

Been trying to think of historical examples. Dodgy Iraq dossier, thalidomide, factor8 for blood transfusions for hemophilia but there may be better examples. Football tragedy at Hillsborough. Maybe you are right? I had not considered the personal element of loss and hurt involved when decisions taken by those in power go wrong. Will have a rethink in this light.

Just to add, anyone can make a wrong decision, continuing to go down that route when you know it's wrong and covering up it's wrong is where the scandal is.

[Taintedice]

Sorry Tainted, could you give me the monthly breakdown of covid deaths? If we can agree the Scottish figures then we can perhaps discuss the pros and cons of lockdown. I think there must be a way out of this and it will not be based on lockdowns.

What lockdowns? If the vaccines work as well as anticipated, Scotland should be down to a handful of deaths by spring, like last July/August. At that point, there will be no reason for the pubs and restaurants to be closed, for sports grounds to remain empty. I also imagine the UK-wide furlough scheme will end in April so no choice but to have folk back to work anyway. Will we all be allowed to pile into boozers, 5 deep at the bar, probably not. Will we be allowed to go on pub crawls around the toon, probably not. If those are things you get angry about, not much to be said.

There also needs to be some recognition of the people who are most impacted by this, people not in the same social circles as Hitchens and Brewer. People living at the thin edge are disproportionately affected by disease, always have been always will be. They deserve protection, not forced to go out and work in environments where worker protections are non-existent at the best of times.

[islaydarkblue]

All fair enough replies lads I’m still no sure if what the government are doing is the right thing or not it definitely seems excessive at times and when I read stuff like I did yesterday saying keep everything shut until may I just think surely no, after everything we’ve had to deal with regarding lockdown for the last 9 months I can understand people’s frustrations, you guys to me have put forward you’re reasons for your take on the matter and I can definitely see where you’re coming from infact I do think some of these things myself at times but I don’t suppose the covid 19 situation is gonna be solved on DeeMad but it’s good to hear the thoughts of you guys as I work with a couple of conspiracy theorists and there a conspiracy for everything that happens in the world and it’s a hard listen at times

Hi Biffo,
I do not know if you read a previous post by me a week ago where I quoted the details of a freedom of information request to NHS Tayside and the answer which was on another forum under the topic COVID-19. The screen shot of the FOI was removed by the mods on that forum and the topic deleted. The person who posted his screen shot was told that his FOI was misinformation. He sent me a PM telling me as I had replied to his post.
The FOI asked how many people died in Ninewells Hospital Dundee solely from COVID-19 during the period 20th February 2020 - 20th December 2020.
The answer from NHS Tayside was that SIX people had died solely from COVID-19 in NHS Tayside hospitals during the period 20th February 2020 to 20th December 2020.
The question the media should be asking Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnston is why the U.K. and Scotland is being closed down when there are only a relatively small number of deaths of people suffering solely from COVID-19.
This problem will not be solved on Dundee Mad but at least we can put forward our opinions without fear of the mods shutting the topic down.
You should try setting up a topic about the COVID-19 lockdown and the way out of it on the DBF and see how you get on.